Joe King making a name for himself apart from the Fray

By Dave Herrera Wed., Nov. 18 2009 at 1:31 PM

Categories: Upbeats and Beatdowns

Perhaps taking a cue from his pal Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic, who's written and produced songs for an array of top shelf pop acts, including Kelly Clarkson, Beyonce and Leona Lewis, Fray guitarist Joe King is steadily making a name for himself as a burgeoning songwriter in his own right. On the just released self-titled debut of Kris Allen, the winner of last season's American Idol, King co-wrote a track called "Alright with Me," which one critic has already pinpointed as the album's standout cut -- or "the liveliest song," as he puts it, on a record filled with otherwise "mostly flavorless pop rock." Not a huge fan of that particular track, but we can appreciate the sentiment.

King also recently collaborated on a song with Timbaland and Esthero on "Undertow," a tune from the former's forthcoming album, Shock Value II. That tune begins with austere, very brief, Fray-like piano figure that immediately blends into a subduded, almost tentative Timbaland beat that props up the producer's auto-tuned vocals in the first verse, before becoming even more Frayed during the chorus, which King lends his burnished tenor. For her part, Esthero, who handles the second verse, sort of steals the show. "Undertow" hasn't officially been released yet -- Shock Value II doesn't hit stores until Tuesday, December 8 -- but enterprising Googlers shouldn't have too hard a time tracking it down.

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@ anon In actual fact 'The Fray' is used rather than 'Joe King' because the fray wrote and co-produced the actual song. And another thing; if you listen carefully you can hear isaac singing back-up in the chorus. So instead of totally bashing the track, do your research. PS if you 'don't care what Joe's doing outside The Fray' wtf are you doing on this page...just saying... I heard this about 2 days ago and i can't stop listening!! I think they've done a good job all round, and i hope i hear some new stuff from The Fray soon. =) xxx
My particular interest has been career paths. I used to write about sports careers and now focus more on music careers. In both cases I tell people to have a Plan A (you achieve all of your goals and become a successful professional), a Plan B (you don't achieve all of your goals and you have to make modifications to remain involved), and Plan C (you get hit by a truck or some other disaster and have to shelve all of your dreams). I got interested in the topic because I was watching figure skaters who trained for years and whose families spent a ton of money on a goal (winning the Olympics) which one person would win once every four years. Virtually no one will achieve that. So what happens when you don't? What are you going to do with all the investment of time/money that you've made? Now I watch a lot of musicians hoping to become successful enough in music to do it full-time. Most won't, or they will have to do things like teach music and play private events to generate enough income. So I try to lay out the options so that they think clearly/realistically about what music holds for most people. I've known the Fray guys since before Epic knew they existed and it has been fun to watch their careers develop. It's been my expectation that they would take the opportunities provided to them, but have other priorities that extend beyond life on major label. I think they are smart enough to learn from whatever comes their way, good or bad.
Don't sweat it Sean. As someone who's met your wife and has seen you perform on many occasions I can say that you are a very lucky and talented guy. Glad to hear the Denverscener troll doesn't bug you. As for as Joe King, meh, good for him. Anybody who plays music for lots of money is lucky even if it's not my thing.
"thanks to everyone for the thoughtful posts and discussion..." ...except for the coward and nameless "Denverscener," who never has anything worthwhile to say, and is low enough to resort to name-calling every single time. Who the fuck are you to tell me what "success" means to me within my life? You have absolutely no right to judge me by those terms, or to impose your fallacious and ignorant standards upon me; I'd guess if anyone was disappointed with their life it's probably the guy who has nothing intelligent or articulate to contribute to any discussion anywhere, ever, and finds the best use of his time blogging that's he's a jaded, go-with-whatever's-cool-which-is-whatever-isn't-cool, juvenile coward. Rookie? Check this out: http://www.cnbc.com/id/28998947?slide=2 So if you have the patience to scroll to the end of that list -- a list reported on by not only CNBC, but Rolling Stone and Billboard among many others -- you'll see that it is the exact source for the list I posted above. I hope you feel like you phased me and hurt my feelings, but the truth is that I wake up every day next to an amazing and beautiful woman (who has given me two wonderful children) thinking that if I died today I did had a pretty great run. You don't know a goddamn thing about me or my life, and your willingness to judge me by such paltry standards as "fame" and "fortune" only reveal to me what kind of petty and thoughtless coward you really are. Enjoy your petty, spiteful, shallow, and cowardly life, kiddo; the joke is on you.
@anon: Judging from the back and forth here, I'd say at least a few people -- yourself included -- are at least moderately interested in what King's doing, even if it's just offering up a dissenting opinion. Like Suzanne, I'm mostly intrigued by hearing the guys outside the context of the Fray, particularly since, as you pointed out, the overall dynamic favors collaboration as opposed to having one member more dominant than the other. Just the same, saying that King's contributions don't play a large part in the band's sound -- well, that's just remiss. Fact is, King is as integral to the group's sound as Slade, whom, incidently, he co-writes most if not all the songs with. That said, again, it's interesting to see how his songs sound without the contributions of his bandmates. I'm equally intrigued at the prospect of Slade branching out on his own. And as far as Tedder is concerned, I merely mentioned him in an effort to draw a logical parallel of a similarly successful pop artist who maintains an artistic presence outside of his mainstay. Finally, as far as "Undertow" is concerned, it lacks continuity, particularly with Timbaland singing the first verse, King singing the choruses and Esthero singing the second verse. Honestly, I'd much prefer that either King or Esthero sang the entire track. Timbaland's vocals are a bit distracting, especially since he doesn't appear on the rest of the cut. Perhaps that was the intent here, though, with the first verse being the call and the second verse being the response. Otherwise, the beat, which is Tim's speciality, isn't that strong. Either way, pretty sure you're going to hear this one on the radio in the coming months. At any rate, thanks to everyone for the thoughtful posts and discussion and thanks most of all for reading Backbeat!
This post by Herrera begs the question though of, does anyone really care what Joe King does outside of the Fray? And for that matter does anyone actually care what he does with the Fray? The Fray's recent 'collaboration' with Timbaland is a laughable joke. Not sure how the rest of the band signed off on letting Joe sing and take the name The Fray in the credits. First and foremost most associated Isaac Slade with being the Fray, and secondly, with The Fray being the Fray, an entire group, not a group of individuals, but a individuals that wouldn't be anything without the group, except maybe Slade. Kudos to King at least trying to hang on and stretch his 'career' out longer than it should be. It's all part of his plan I'm sure, renewing his 'long-lost friendship' with Tedder from their days playing soccer together in high school (competing teams), and to piggy back on Tedder's success. Guess that's what you need to do to perpetuate themselves, but sooner or later the 'writing' engagements won't come through for King once other musicians and producers realize that it is not his sound or style that makes the Fray the Fray.
Sean A.M. = Burned Out Washed Up Never Has Been. Dude all the " rock legends" were mostly dead by 27, music is a young mans sport and an old mans hobby. All those old names you cite (which aren't even correct, check Pollstar rookie)made all of their "good" music when they were young. And yes you are a burned out loser for 1) blogging on a message board about what a washed up never has been musician you are/were/never was and 2)never once being on the billboard hot 100 - you ain't got shit on Miley Cyrus!
@Sean - No sweat. It's actually been an interesting discussion. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I hadn't participated in it. :)
I'm truly sorry, Cory. I was on autopilot and just typed that name; not that it was specifically in reference to you, as you're generally more eloquent, thoughtful, and open-minded. As we've all seen from many of my previous posts: I don't always re-read as many times as I should. Suzanne: I agree with you that it's good to have something "outside" the band, but let's agree also that young people don't necessarily make the best music, and that just because you're old doesn't mean you can't tour, have a healthy family, and/or write good music. A lot of this "young buzz" isn't contributing to the world of music in a positive way anyway, so maybe we need to rethink what deserves "buzz," who really deserves it, and why. That revision starts with listeners like you and me. Regardless, thanks for responding to what I said, and not just that I said something.
How did I get dragged into this? Don't I get enough shit for the things I actually say?
You know, sometimes it is better to do it when you are young, and then move on. Sure, there are people who are still touring and rocking when they are 60, but if it old folks dominated, we wouldn't be reading so much about the young buzz bands. Life on the road can be hard, and even harder when you get into your 40s, 50s, and 60s. For most, getting your music success at a young age so you can do some other things in life is ideal. Some folks are still touring late in life because they didn't make enough money earlier on, not because they necessarily love it. At any rate, my point is, it's always to good to do things outside of your band. It's good for your head and it can good for you financially and artistically.
Not Cory... Captain Pat... whatever. We'll call you Cory. Sorry, I forgot your tag as soon as I read it.
Cory: Who said I haven't "made it"? Is it you because you haven't heard of me? Is it because my name's not on the Billboard charts? No, actually, I wake up most mornings thinking that my biggest dreams have come true, and that I'm one lucky bastard. I mean, you should see my wife ... and I'm pretty much constantly in awe of the music I am privileged to help make. (Actually, I don't believe in luck, but that's for another post). By my standards I've "made it" and then some. Sorry I feel the need to comment when ignorance seems to be the lay of the land; I'm sick and tired of closed-minded Americans screwing up the rest of the world one ignorant opinion at a time. I don't do "speed" though, and never have; uppers don't agree with me. It's a sad climate we live in when a prolix opinion is equated with crazed drug usage, as Plato, Shakespeare, and a thousand others toss uncomfortably in their graves. Sorry ... "dudes." We should probably just all keep quiet (like we have been) when people spout ignorant nonsense like you, Cory. I haven't "made it." HA! For you to profess to know anything about me is the most ignorant statement made here yet.
*phenomena That's what that was supposed to read; not "phenomenoms," which isn't even a word. Seriously though ... if you're a musician, you have a family, and something "breaks up" your marriage and/or "ends" your music career, then you simply have a crappy family; either your family sucks because they don't support you, or you suck because you failed to integrate the two in a mutually-supportive way. Failure of a relationship is always due to the people involved in that relationship. If a relationship stresses and fails because of outside factors then it wasn't a very stable relationship to begin with.Granted, thousands of people enter into these kinds of faulty relationships every single day, and abide by them for years and years simply because they think that a successful relationship is a formula to which they must adhere. They have this same sad kind of myopic, stagnant, and ethnocentric thinking that you exhibited in your first post; it's called the American marriage, which has a divorce rate of over 50% (most of those people are also not professional musicians, by the way) because we're so conditioned to not think outside the box.
@Sean AM - Dude- lay off the speed, bro. These are comment boards, not your blog. You seem really upset that you haven't made it yet. Unfortunately, most musicians never will.
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. I have a wife and two children, and I still make records by going into the studio and spending long days recording takes; I still show up and band practice 4 times a week, I still plays shows and don't get home until 2-3am, still practice for an hour or more a day, and I still go on tour when needed. My wife supports me, and my children are happy; I'm also happy to be an example for my children that you can live your dreams and have a family. The last thing I would ever want my children to think is that American ideology is correct; that "dreams" are only feasible if they pay the bills. Money, money, money. Gross. No thanks, I won't be raising any of those children. If any of the projects I'm involved with become "big," then it will only make the marriage of music and family easier. Other local artists who have functional music careers and families: DJ Vajra, and Nathaniel from The Wheel. There are tons more, but I won't bore you, and don't care to look the rest up, as I'm sure you're as set in your ways as anyone else. The mode of thought which you express here is unnecessarily limiting, and is the result of a meritocratic culture which crushes "dreams" in favor of "profit," because it defines "happiness" and "success" as the amount of money one is able to spend. Let me tell you this: innovation and imagination -- by definition -- do not cater to practicality. You're in over your head here. The band Low formed and went to live on the road indefinitely, and they even decided to have children without a significant amount of profit or fame. Every single artist I mentioned above has a family. Sure, they can afford full-time nannies if needed, but they still have families and are simultaneously the best examples (statistically) of career musicians. The idea that artists have to live out of a van for extended periods of time is antiquated, and has been subverted by easy access to technology and communication. in fact, most of the bands people often discuss here -- take The Fray for example -- never lived out of a van; The Fray hardly left Denver before they made their first million. Did they make that million by packing venues in metropolitan areas? Nope: they made it by inking an advertising deal, and they packed those venues afterwards. Bands like Artic Monkeys, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, and many other "MySpace" phenomenoms made their entire careers from within a 100-mile radius of their homes. This is the climate of modern music; not filthy teenagers playing Kerouac between shitty venues. I appreciate that you're probably not aware of the fact that your ideology comes from the culture in which you were raised, and not from within yourself, but please try to be a little more self-aware, especially when talking about the lives of artists; there's no room for convention here.
Touring is part of a music career and most people don't want to be away from their families. Once people have kids, then they tend to give up on full-time music careers that involve lots of travel. Having a wife and kids who need you at home either breaks up marriages or ends music careers. So if you want to live out of a van, you do it when you are single and young.
"Music tends to be a young person's career, so you usually need to have plans for what you will be doing for the rest of your life." Um... no. The top 5 highest-grossing concerts worldwide last year were as follows: 1. Bon Jovi 2. Springsteen 3. Madonna 4. The Police 5. Celine Dion Where are the young people in this list of performers, aside from maybe somewhere amongst the stage/road crew? Also: if you know anything about who really makes money off music, it's not the "young" people you see on the screen or stage: yeah, Miley Cyrus makes tons of bank, and she's a teenager, but not only is she the exception, but her intake is certainly a fraction of the label's intake, and that label is primarily made-up of silver-haired, money-grubbing not "young" persons. If you can only have music as a career when you're "young," it's because you never really had anything worthwhile to say, you ended-up quitting, and decided to try to save face by blaming it on your age because you didn't have the self-awareness to admit that what you were doing was a "flash in the pan" anyway, or because you had a shred of decency left and (thankfully) passed on the option to write commercial jingles or dreck for the next/last/almost/not quite American Idol. Maybe you invested your money wisely (way to go, Doug Martsch) and just don't want to play the bullshit pop-music game anymore. Whatever the reason: it's not because old people cannot or do not make money off music. Most of the people actually profiting from the current musical climate are over 40, whether they are on stage or not. Asude from that: most of the best music is made by people who have been in the industry for a while (read: not Joe King); many pivotal members of music history aren't even appreciated until they're older, and then have a reunion tour and make their money that way. I could rattle off a list of thousands of players who not only changed the face of music, but were not noticed/appreciated/compensated until their later years, or died before it ever happened. Oh, but you weren't talking about "quality" music, were you? Yeah, pop music is a young person's career indeed, but it has nothing to do with music; it has to do with corporations and advertising. in fact, pop music has little to do with music overall, and is (and has been for decades) primarily about profit margins; actual music-making (especially creativity) is involved as little as possible to not only save on cost, but to appeal to the lowest common denominator. "Same with sports." I've never cared much for sports, but -- yes, while most active payers are "young" -- plenty of older starts still make their careers off sports. If you get a product endorsement because you played sports, it's a sports job, even if you're not playing; if you become a sports commentator, it's also a sports job, etc. If you don't get those jobs when you're older ... it's because you sucked. Again: the richest people are not only (older) players who milk their formative careers for all they're worth, but they are mostly the people who own the teams, sell the tickets, and benefit directly from advertising and endorsements. Anyway, thanks but no thanks, Joe King; we don't need anymore vapid American Idol/Grey's Anatomy/Corporate Fridge Buzz; not even one more non-threatening, could-be-played-in-the-grocery-store-or-elevator-or-dentist's-office measure of that "music." Barf.
One reason I've always felt good about The Fray is that each of the members has interests and skills beyond the band itself. That gives them multiple options and keeps things in perspective. Music tends to be a young person's career, so you usually need to have plans for what you will be doing for the rest of your life. Same with sports. Therefore when you can, leverage whatever success you currently have to get into projects that will work well when you're older.