Barack Obama's selective service records accessed by CO Springs birther Greg Hollister?

Categories: News

barack obama on phone cropped small.JPG
Update below: The latest bizarre twist in Birther Nation's assault on President Barack Obama has a special home-state flavor.

Colorado Springs-based retired Colonel Greg Hollister claims to have surreptitiously accessed Obama's selective-service records, which call into question if he was born in Hawaii, as he insists. But do they instead imply that he was born in... Connecticut?

The Hollister story first cropped up on a website called GrateWire. Charley Doane-Serph starts his post like so:

Col. Greg Hollister, USAF (Ret.) contacted the Selective Service, falsely impersonated President Obama, improperly registered his own address as President Obama's address, and by this false impersonation and identity theft he managed to obtain a duplicate registration acknowledgement card with President Obama's Selective Service information on it.

This may violate several federal criminal statutes, and apparently caused the federal record of President Obama's address with the Selective Service to be altered to show that he lives in Colorado Springs, CO.

Hollister then sent the stolen draft card to Orly Taitz, who filed it in federal court.

The item also includes an image of the document. Here it is:

Selective-service.jpg
Click to enlarge.
The Colorado Springs Gazette soon picked up the story and contacted Hollister, the man behind a January 18 lawsuit challenging Obama's American citizenship, which the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear. Hollister told the paper he'd broken no laws in obtaining the paperwork, which he says features a never-issued Social Security number. In addition, there's this Gazette snippet:

Hollister said the Social Security number on what he says is Obama's draft registration begins with the numbers 042, which would be issued to someone born in Connecticut, not Hawaii.

Last I heard, Connecticut is part of the United States rather than the property of Kenya. Presumably, then, the theory is that the document was phonied up to cover Foreigner Obama's tracks -- but whoever did the deed was so sloppy that he or she neglected to invent a Social Security number that corresponded to Hawaii.

J'accuse! Or not.

Update: Just got a note maintaining that the Hollister story actually first cropped up on TheFogbow.com, whose slogan is "Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow." To check it out, click here.

More from our News archive: "Terrence Lakin, birther Lieutenant Colonel refusing to honor Obama's "illegal" orders to serve in Afghanistan, is a Colorado native -- naturally."

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49 comments
loveJesusnow
loveJesusnow

arrest this undocumented, treasousness enemy of the U.S. Obama now, do not inaugurate him. Stand up for America Now. If you care about this country you and all will help to prevent him from being inaugurated. 

Rexyellowdog1
Rexyellowdog1

One thing is absolutely true, without a doubt. Obama and FLOTUS have way too much buried, hidden and locked up past records and history. How on earth can we have allowed a man whose background is so secretive to be our leader ? The American voters are a dangerous lot, indeed. Big lie #1, a transparent administration.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

I guess you missed the in depth coverage of his whole life while running for President.

Commonsense
Commonsense

Did anyone consider that maybe someone "claiming" to be Barak Obama raised a GIANT RED FLAG and so that person was intentionally given "fake" information for security reasons?

Guest
Guest

We finally have a name to the mysterious Connecticut SS card holder that Obama has been using. This is bad news for Obama.

This is what we know so far.

We get more info on Jean Paul Ludwig, who was born in 1890, had CT SSN obtained in 1976 and died in HI around 1981. There are 2 SS numbers for him and records show him dying in 2 different states: CA and HI around 1981.

The reason this is important, is because there is a similar fact pattern to Obama. Barack Obama is residing today in the White House, using CT SS number 042-68-4425, issued in CT in and around March 1977 to an elderly individual named John Paul Ludwig, who was born in 1890, who is presumed dead and whose death was either never reported to the SS administration or reported and deleted from the database by someone.

Obama's maternal grandmother Madelyn Dunham, worked as a part-timer or volunteer in the Probate Office in the Honolulu Hawaii Courthouse. Thus she would have access to the estate files of anyone who died there. Thus if the elderly man originally from CT died intestate in Hawaii with no known relatives, Grandma Dunham would have known this person is a prime candidate to steal the SSN of since there would be no known surviving family worrying about the death benefit from SSN and that the benefit was not likely applied for and thus SSA did not know he died. Thus the SSN remained active for the deceased person and Obama could "adopt" it as his own. This is a clear case of identity theft at the federal level. The question to be asked to validate this "ponderment" is, "Why would granny want to get him a ss#? There are all kinds of answers, some based on factual documentation all around the net; search, analyse, question, and conclude.

This is what we know about Ludwig:

In 1924, Jean Paul Ludwig worked for Senator Reed of PA, in Washington DC. (a republican, it appears)

On the ship manifest of ‘Leviathan’, he listed Senator Reed in Washington, DC as his empl., in answer to where he intended to live in the US.

Jean Paul Ludwig had been in the US for 3 yrs in 1924, but he was listed on the “Immigration” manifest and refered to as an alien in the column headings.

Listed under “States Immigration Officer at Port of Arrival”, New York, Aug 12, 1924:

Jean Paul Ludwig, Date of Arrival: Aug 12, 1924, Port of Departure:Cherbourg, France, Line#: 0008

Line #8: By Whom was Passage Paid: Emp. Mr. Reed; Whether in possession of $50: Yes; Whether ever before in US: Yes; If Yes-Period of Years: 3; Where: PA

Whether going to join relative or friend: Empl. Senator Reed, Washingto, DC

Length of time alien intends to remain in the US: Always

Height 5′5″, Complexion Dk., Hair Br., Eyes Br., Marks of ID: None

Place of Birth: France, Ammersville.

http://www.ellisisland.org/sig...§ion=3

First Name: Jean P.Last Name: LudwigEthnicity: FranceLast Place of Residence: Washington, D.C.Date of Arrival: Aug 12, 1924Age at Arrival: 34 Gender: M Marital Status: SShip of Travel: LeviathanPort of Departure: Cherbourg, FranceManifest Line Number: 0008

U.S. Social Security Death IndexName: Jean LudwigBirth Date: 17 February 1890Zip Code of Last Residence: 96816 (Honolulu,HI)Death Date: June 1981Estimated Age at Death: 91

Interesting ... two locations of death. And interesting Obama was in HI and/or CA at various times in his early life ... but never in CT. And SSN for Jean Paul Ludwig was the one used on the back dated, forged Selective Service registration form for Obama which was filed via the Chicago IL office when Obama was not in the Chicago IL office area of responsibility. Given the corruption in Chicago and all the friends in many places one can see how they likely got access to the necessary forms via the Chicago IL office and some insider in the Chicago IL Sel Service office did the dirty deed and got it entered into the records retroactively. They were clever but not perfect and the forgery was detected by a federal officer. At age 18 Obama was either in HI or CA which means that Sel Service registration should have been processed in the west coast Sel Service office, not the mid-American district. But that Obama use the SSN of Sean Paul Ludwig is 100% confirmed by the number being used when Obama's name was entered into the Selective Service system.

You can also do a search and come up with Mr. Ludwig's enlistment record with more info about him.

All the theories about WHY Obama is using a fraudulent/stolen number do not matter. All that matters is he is using a fraudulent social security number---and now at least sixteen other numbers are showing up connected to addresses he actually resided in. CRIME>

Jojohn
Jojohn

Sorry there is only one office and it is in Chicago,IL. No one would be given a copy of the registration unless they were that person. If someone pretended to be Obama but lived in CO, the office would know it's a lie. The Selective Service number is not a legal number. The whole thing is fake. Give it up

Doubleneck412
Doubleneck412

My Uncle was worried about how black people would react/celebrate if Jesse Jackson would have won the Presidency many years back. What he didn't fear/understand however was how white people would react to a black President. It's EMBARRASSING!

debi.starks
debi.starks

@TerriGeer McCain saw the impending financial crisis coming. Obama helped cause it stemming from his attorney days working w/ACORN and forcing affirmative action mortgages.

Months after the 2008 election, with an economy much worse, the Obama Admin said the fundamentals of the economy were strong.  Since then, Obama has lost most every member of his economic team because they wanted to leave w/some credibility.  Obama has proven himself to be an absolute dunce on the economy & beyond.  Stop making excuses for your pathetic ignorance.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

What if we voted for him because we thought that putting McCain into office was just plain stupid. Our country had been in financial meltdown for three years, and it was projected that it was going to take at least 10 more years to get back on track. And that it was going to get worse before it got better.

McCain said, 2 days before the bank crisis, that the economy was not his strong suit.

Who would YOU have voted for given those circumstances?

GrtHands7
GrtHands7

If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you weren't a racists, You better vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you are not an idiot!

Michael Roberts
Michael Roberts

Guest, thanks for sharing this information. We're going to make it an upcoming Comment of the Day. Thanks for posting.

Rj Nussbeck
Rj Nussbeck

We have a Treasonist President? Obama has committed High Treason by lying about being a U.S. citizen to take control of the most powerful country in the world? Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid and Joe Biden committed Hight Treason by Venting Obama declaring him a U.S. citizen when they knew he was not???????

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

There has been no proof that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii, just speculation. 

And the word is "vetting". As anyone who paid attention to the news sources, we knew practically everything about Obama and his past. The fact that we voted for him in spite of the hysteria of the birthers, doesn't mean that he wasn't vetted.

SmartPersonHere
SmartPersonHere

Hey Birthers, guess who is running for re-election (and will win, too).

Sayon
Sayon

"We invented all kinds of ways to obtain false identity papers, and got busy building multiple sets of ID for each of us and for every contingency," writes Bill Ayers of his years in the Weather Underground. "We soon figured out that the deepest and most foolproof ID had a government-issued Social Security card at its heart."

For the record, Ayers appears to have commuted between his wife and children in Chicago and Columbia University in New York from 1984 to 1987. Obama left New York, where he, too, had attended Columbia University, and arrived in Chicago in 1985

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?p...

FROM OBAMAS BEST BUDDY'S OWN MOUTH=

''WE SOON FIGURED OUT THAT THE DEEPEST MOST FOOLPROOF ID HAD A GOVERNMENT-ISSUED SOCIAL SECURITY CARD AT ITS HEART''

Twitterfan
Twitterfan

before the computer age, giving a fake social security # to selective service would be a potential way to stay in school and stay eligible for govt loans, but potentially try to skip being drafted by changing a vital identifier.

If the govt says his S.S. number is not legit, I would suspect WHAT HE DID WAS evade the potential for being drafted while still staying eligible for Federal student loans.

In 1980, when Obama was required to register, registration for potential draft had just been re-instituted that year as a requirement - when the soviets invaded Afghanistan.

Maybe Obama may have wanted to make sure that he did not get drafted so he gave a fake social security number on the form he had to fill out.This way, he still gets federal money for school, but he is using a ghost social# and cannot be drafted since his real identity is not in the draft pool, but if he continued using the same S.S. number for school loans he would then be eligible under this alter ego S.S. # for taxpayer cash to fund a Ivy League education.

The question would be, did he only use this SS# on this form alone, of did he use it also on student loan applications.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

The main thing about this is that the Government is not saying it. Who is saying it is a retired Colonel that illegally, according to him, broke into a Government computer database. Simply the fact that he did this, causes me to mistrust what he has to say.

Did he use it at all? So far, all I have seen is unverified. Until I see, or hear, proof from an official I will consider all of this crap - crap. And nothing more.

TheDoctorWhoCuresCancer
TheDoctorWhoCuresCancer

The SSS registration form has an identifying number (not shown in the images above - they are on Debbie Schlussel's website) which identifies the form as 2008. IOW, Obama didin't fill it out in 1980 although that is the signed date.

You can also see Obama's full SS# on Schlussell: 042-68-4425. It does not belong to him. IOW there are at least two felonies with the SSS registration. A falsely filed date and using a false SS#.

Furthermore, Obama probably considered himself to be an Indonesian citizen* in 1980, so he didn't need to register in 1980. He only needed to register in 2008 to work in the WH.

*An Indonesian passport would have enabled him to travel to Pakistan when he did. Those with US passports were not allowed into Pakistan.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

Those with passports WERE allowing into Pakistan, is was just advised against. Since he was going with his roommate, to visit the roommates family, I see no reason why he shouldn't have gone.

The Draft Registration that is purportedly Obama's is only speculation that it is his. Nothing more.

Probably considered himself to be an Indonesian citizen? Where do you people get these kind of delusions? Obama was a US citizen, and has ALWAYS been a US citizen. You don't want to believe that? Oh well. That doesn't change the facts that there is no evidence that he has ever been anything other than a US citizen.

That public school paper that everyone has been touting as some kind of evidence? For one thing it states that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. As to using his step-fathers last name? It's evident that you are not old enough to remember when that was common. His Mother and step-father were in Indonesia. If I was in grade school back then, I probably would have put that, too.

You people are making mountains out of a grain of sand. Without one bit of proof that what you are saying is true.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

It doesn't matter how many websites have verified what you want to believe, none of it is official. Not one piece. Unless they are verified, it is ALL speculation. All of it. Are you aware of what evidence, and how to tell if something is evidence?

Are you aware of how to take someone's signature off of a digital document and put it on another one? It's not hard. In fact, it's really simple. Unless the State Department verifies that Pakistan, at the time of Obama's visit, was forbidden to US citizens, then what the websites have to say simply does not matter.

Unless the Selective Service document is verified by the people that the Colonel supposedly stole it from, it does not matter.

Why did his Mother take him off of her passport? That's easy to answer, he wasn't going to be going back with her, he was staying with his Grandparents. Family passports are no longer issued, but they used to be. The thing about the family passport is that everyone who is on it has to be traveling at the same time, to the same place. Since Obama was not going to be traveling with his Mother she could no longer use it. So she got another one.

As for the Indonesian schools only accepting Indonesians, because Obama wasSoetoro's step-son he was considered Indonesian, in Indonesia, and ONLY inIndonesia. Nowhere else, despite how much all of you birthers would like tobelieve otherwise.

Passport information are not public records. School records are not publicrecords. BC/COLB's (they are legally equal) are not public records untilafter a period determined by the State. In Hawaii, that period is 75 years.In some States it's 100 years.

Are you aware that Obama posted his BC on his website to stop the idioticrumors about his middle name? That there was no legal reason for him to doso? That the public, whether they want to know or not, is not entitled toeven see it? That they are not entitled to see his school transcripts?School transcripts have not been public records since the 1970's.

All of this rumor mongering is getting old. You people have been told thefacts and you have deliberately chosen to not believe them. Why? That isnot a sane behavior.

KelleyE
KelleyE

We will have to disagree regarding Pakistan's acceptance of US passports. Every single source I have ever heard is that US passports were not allowed for passage into Pakistan. So unless you have something to back up your unique claim...

The SSS registration has Obama's signature on it and it looks exactly like his signature. So why on earth would you call it speculation??

It is well known that only Indonesians could attend Indonesian schools when Obama was there. To claim that his attendance there has no meaning is to create your own fiction. Likewise to then claim there is no evidence when the school record indicates just the opposite is yet another fiction on your part. 

The fact that his mother had him removed from her passport is yet more evidence.

These are not grains of sand, but real facts that lend great credence to the idea that Obama was not an American citizen, and that he might have had an Indonesian passport when he went to Pakistan. Obama has sealed the records.It was one of his firsts acts as president, to give you an idea of its priority in Obama's mind. All he would have to do is to unseal his records, but he has refused to do so.

Once again it is a falsehood for you to claim there is no evidence when the only evidence we have all point against him rather than for him.

The timing of Obama's finally signing an SSS registration is yet another bit of evidence that needs to be answered. Did Obama understand that he was not required to fill out the registartion form when he was 18 because he believed he was an Indonesian citizen?

Furthermore, whatever the reason he might have had at the age of 18, filling out the form in 2008, when he was 47 years old, and backdating it is a felony.

Fred Muggs
Fred Muggs

You spin a nice yarn Twitterfan but the problem is that the draft ended in 1973 when Obama was 12 years old.

None of us know what SS# the President is currently assigned. It is very likely that for security reasons the SSA assigned President Obama a new number after the idiot Orly Taitz violated court rules and included his full SS# in several court filings. You can bet this would have been done quietly and efficiently.

The geographical association with social security numbers is not absolute and is only based on the zip code where the SS5 application was filed. IF the zip code is read incorrectly then the number is not corrected for the "right" location. Go search for yourself on the SSA site and they will tell you not to trust the prefix to tell location.

Is Hollister in jail where he belongs yet?

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

The geographical association, which is a very general description, is for where the person starts working.

Guest
Guest

It appears his current ss# is the same as the one used on selective service app and BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE. I say "appears" because we are only given the last four digits of his current number -- and they match last four digits of the SS# BELONGING TO A SOMEONE ELSE, who's death is recorded in HI and CA but appears to never had the death reported to SS. This is all outside of "theories", actual data. Reality. Will anything happen? Doubt it. Most Americans will say it can't be true, even with all the documentation to damn the president, because it is simply too outrageous for most to comprehend as a reality.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

We are, also, only being given this by a man who has previously tried to remove our President from office, and was told no. Just the fact that the man purportedly broke into a Government database is enough to make me doubt anything that comes out of his mouth.

Social Security numbers are not available to the public (someone else's, that is) until the death of that person. Tax returns online by our Congressmen and President do not have their Social Security numbers on them. IF there are SS numbers on them, it's because someone changed the document after it was released. It's that simple.

Jobbtree
Jobbtree

This guy didnt break any laws, he uncovered identity theft. Citizen award deserving for sure. Colonel Hollisters sounds like he did some good detective work and uncovered something here. Good job!

Terence Reilly
Terence Reilly

OMG, President Obama lived in Colorado when he was 18? Why didn't he tell us?

Mary_Adams
Mary_Adams

LOL!

Kel_9000
Kel_9000

Go ahead and laugh. I'm sure it helps make you feel better.

I know the difficulty you face, though. It's called "cognitive dissonance" and one of the defense mechanisms is mockery of the view (or those holding the view) causing the dissonance.

Some people will never get over the fact that yes, in this case, the inbred, redneck, brown people hating, Obama bashers were right.

Just because they are filthy, disgusting people, does not mean that they are wrong. It will be tough to admit that you, and your latte sipping crowd, were wrong, and that the rednecks were right.

Bill
Bill

You've missed the point of this story. Hollister is alleged to have accessed the Selective Service system and changed the home address for President Obama's registration to Hollister's address. Then, a duplicate SSS registration card was sent to Hollister, in the president's name. You can see on the images you posted that the address has been blanked out.

But a member of The Fogbow (www.thefogbow.com) was able to decipher the post code on the page, and through basic googling, identify Hollister's address as the one to which the new registration cards were sent.

It's a lot more serious than just Hollister trying to "verify" the president's Social Security number. Go to the Fogbow.com and you'll get all the details.

Starsafired
Starsafired

You add more drama to the speculation of Birthers, nothing more. In my world, all this stuff about 'proper documents' makes no difference, the main message is the same.

Mobusapollo
Mobusapollo

I wasn't a birther but after reading this I searched on my own, found about 10 different socials matching Obamas property records which anyone can find. You can't get the whole social just a piece and found that none of them go to Hawaii. This one according to SSN admin goes to CT and this is the one Obama actually used for his most recent public record. WTF.Plus this is a Colonel, I'd be more inclined to believe a retired officer than a politician any day. Politicians are known to lie but retired officers typically uphold their honor very well.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

Or he adjusted a blank one to suit his purpose. It's not very difficult. Look at how many people that believed that the signature on Obama's BC was his Grandmother's, not his Mother's.

People are believing this crap because they want to, not because there is any proof of it.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

You mean because there is more than one Barack Obama, with a social security number, living in the US? 

Terence Reilly
Terence Reilly

You mean the same officer that is retired because he refused to follow orders? Or should we bring up the fact that he falsified information to steal a draft card? Yes, this whole article is a testament to his trustworthiness.

Starsafired
Starsafired

It is true that in 1961 when President Obama was born black people in this country had no rights under American law. His mother, however, was an American citizen which, if he were white, would have given him legal American citizenship.

His family story is as familiar as my own since I'm neither white, nor male. It wasn't until the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that we got , on paper, some access to the public institutions and places that our ancestors have paid for with their tax dollars for more than two hundred years. It's the same , old story, again and again, through the ages. Our right to be considered either persons, or citizens under American laws will be questioned, denied from our birth until our death, until some time in the distant future, something different happens.

Another twist. Hawaii became a state in 1958, just a few years before the president was born. Hawaii is multi cultural in nature, giving folks another way to deny the existence of those of us who don't claim some form of European heritage.

Funny that none of this has ever been mentioned by the Birthers.

Dixie Trent
Dixie Trent

Not Correct!  To become a U.S. President, one has to be a "natural born citizen"---which means the "status" AT BIRTH is what counts (therefore, "natural BORN citizen").  America "accepted" Englands 1948 Act on citizenship---which applied to Obama AT HIS BIRTH, because of his Father being a "citizen of the Crown"---in 1963 kenya won their independence from England, so Obama and his Father then became "Kenyan citizens".  People on the left have been saying that since Pres. Obama DID NOT "renew" his Kenyan citizenship, then he was NOW a U.S. citizen.  THIS IS FALSE!  It's WHAT YOUR STATUS WAS  "AT BIRTH"!    Pres. Obama was a "British citizen AT BIRTH"!

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

Because Obama was born in Hawaii, he was a natural born citizen from birth. The fact that his Father was a British citizen when Obama was born has no bearing on this fact.

mystylplx
mystylplx

You seem to be under the impression that British or Kenyan citizenship erases his natural born American citizenship. It doesn't. The only thing that counts is his American citizenship. 

Michael Roberts
Michael Roberts

Thanks for the post, which we're going to make an upcoming Comment of the Day. Congrats.

chisco1
chisco1

You need to check your facts a little more closely before you make these statements of yours -- there were NO states added to the United States in 1958!

The 49th state (Alaska) was admitted to the Union on January 3, 1959, and the 50th state (Hawaii) was not admitted to the United States as a state until August 21, 1959.

Given that you don't have even that part of your post accurate, one might be inclined to think that the rest of your post isn't all that accurate either.....

Eamon Early
Eamon Early

technically Hawaii is not legally a part of the United States under international law. More specifically United Nations Charter 73.  You see, the plebesite vote was non binding because Hawaii was under illegal occupation by the USA. But thats just me.

Lets not get into how the framers of these United States had by-laws called the Constitution that mirrored Vatel's Laws of Nations. Being such, both parents need to be American soil born for the candidate to be eligible for the presidency. This makes certain national loyalty.

What was that other little tidbit about the long form birth certificate being released in adobe PDF format. Its supposed to be a simply xerox but when you open it in adobe illustrator, there are multiple digital artwork layers. Can anyone say forensive digital analysis?  Forging 101 can prove this. Just zoom in and look at pixels in the BC #.  Wake up.

Back to your crackerjacks and baseball now....wouldnt want anyone burning a calorie thinking.

TerriGeer
TerriGeer

In order to put a document on the internet, you have to scan it into a program that puts it into some kind of photo file. Most people use PhotoShop. You, quite apparently, are not aware of how digital documents work.

TheDoctorWhoCuresCancer
TheDoctorWhoCuresCancer

You're living 50 years in the past. We have a black President and a black Attorney General. Meanwhile you've got an old tape running on a continuous loop in your head.

Go to Sudan if you want to see racism and slavery.

Robert
Robert

It is nonsense to say that "black people in this country had no rights under American law", for all of the needed reforms of the modern civil rights era, and even nuttier to insinuate that the President would not have been considered a citizen by right of blood because he is black! I am sorry that so many are entirely satisfied with their own ideological squint rather than an objective understanding of the whole scope of our history.

P.S. Care to explain what "Hawaii is multi cultural in nature, giving folks another way to deny the existence of those of us who don't claim some form of European heritage" means? It seems to be a statement of victimhood, but I can't parse it beyond that.

Dixie Trent
Dixie Trent

I grew-up in the 50's, so I can speak well on this subject.  Blacks DID have "rights"---except in the racist South.  I am white, but attended a "Dunbar Elementary School" which is predominantly "black"---and ALL students had the SAME "rights" (that was in Kansas).  To say they did not is to be wholly DECEIVED!  The younger generation DOES NOT KNOW anything about American history---they just say what the left tells them to say!  BUT, in the 50's, blacks DID NOT have a "victim mentality" like they do today!  They were ALL hard-working, strong CHRISTIANS, and taught their children the same things that we whites taught our children!  THEY were the TRULY 'color blind" blacks.  GREAT PEOPLE, back then.

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