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Marijuana: Great Legalization Debate quickly goes to pot

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If only Ron Paul and Barney Frank had introduced their federal marijuana-legalization proposal one day earlier, the Great Legalization Debate might have turned into a truly great discussion. Instead, last night's "debate" at Casselman's more closely resembled an episode of Family Feud -- which turned R-rated when Corey Donahue lit up a joint.

Family, because everyone on the stage at Casselman's agrees that marijuana should be legal. Feud, because none of them agree -- yet -- on the ideal way to go about making it legal in Colorado.

Along with Donahue, the other panelists included many familiar subjects and commenters on this blog; the Reverend Brandon Baker, Kathleen Chippi, Rico Colibri, Paul Danish, Mason Tvert and Laura Kriho, whose Legalize 2012 sponsored the event. All seven are considering some proposal to legalize -- or at least decriminalize -- marijuana in Colorado. Tvert's coalition has already filed its proposal with the state, an act that was the subject of much sniping from other panelists (and, in fact, Donahue had just filed an official complaint against it).

I was the moderator of the event, which quickly moved beyond moderate. I would have loved to hear what the panelists thought about Ron Pauls' proposal; instead, I heard a lot about George Soros (for the record, he has provided no funding for Tvert's effort). Members of the audience would have loved to hear the panelists' take on their very real problems finding medicine, finding jobs, finding legal help; instead, the time was taken up by attacks. Playing political consultant at the wrap-up, Paul Danish, a longtime activist who got a growth-control measure through in Boulder three decades ago, noted that the discussion last night would be enough to kill any move to legalize marijuana in Colorado.

Still, this was a family fight, and the family can come back together to present a relatively civil front, if not an entirely united one. Last night was a start, albeit a rocky one. I invite everyone who was in attendance -- or watching on the web -- to post comments below; I'd also like to publish anything the participants, particularly Tvert, would like to say about the "debate" and their proposal -- and I promise not to interrupt.

In the meantime, you can read William Breathes's preview of their proposals here. And remember, where there's smoke, there's ire.

More from our Calhoun: Wake-Up Call archive: "Sunken Gardens Park ditches the porta-potties after neighbors got pissy about heroin dealers."


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198 comments
Truthfrequency
Truthfrequency

Lit up a joint onstage? WTF! This is fucking ridiculous. The movement has been co-opted by a bunch of kids most likely led by DEA agents who are telling them to push for no restrictions on the sale of recreational cannabis. They know they can't fight a bill that regulates the sale of it so they're pushing for a talking point where they can say "these people want to sell it to your 5 year old children!"

I'm the first one to step up for personal liberty and the DECRIMINALIZATION of cannabis (yes, DECRIMINALIZATION, not LEGALIZATION", we need to REPEAL old laws not CREATE new ones) but even I am for the 18+ or 21+ law.

And these people smoking weed in public at conferences and what not. What a bunch of useful idiots! We need to send a message that we are mature adults who don't need money and daddy government anymore, not a bunch of hippie kids who want to smoke pot. That would be like a congressman or senator cracking open a beer before he walks up to the floor to talk about a bill.

GROW UP OTHERWISE MOMMY AND DADDY GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COME DOWN ON US ALL, EVEN THE MATURE ADULTS WHO DON'T NEED MOMMY AND DADDY GOVERNMENT ANYMORE.

bcainw
bcainw

I'm with Corey.  Let all adults grow it, gift it, sell it and trade it.  No taxes.  After all 73 years of government suppression and then we hand it back to them to control, regulate and tax it.  I think not. Tvert is a Twerp.  Read on and think about supporting my "write in" candidacy for President in 2012.  I was a good friend of Jack Herer's.

Obama, 911 and the Emerging New World Orderhttp://www.newagecitizen.com/M...

The MERP Strategy for Marijuana Re-Legalization in a Nutshellhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

And here are some additional links with more on MERP. But the video above is the best exposition of

the MERP Model and how it can be implemented NATION WIDE with your help.

Because Marijuana is Safer that Beer . . . How About We Start Treating It That Way?MERP HeadquartersThe Marijuana Re-Legalization Policy Project (MRPP)= "MERP"http://www.newagecitizen.com/M...

Why We Should Not Allow Marijuana to be Taxed or Regulated - the "Big Picture"http://www.newagecitizen.com/M...

Obama's War on Marijuana: Racist, Hypocritical and Unconstitutionalhttp://www.newagecitizen.com/M...

New Candidate for 2012 Presidency wants a "Green Economy" Based on Marijuanahttp://www.newagecitizen.com/M...

Mr.no name
Mr.no name

Im all for the legalization of pot, It will reduce the amount of crimes we have in cities and if we tax it it will do wonders for our economy. For states like California who is greatly in debt that would be a good solution. we legalized tobacco and alcohol which is worse than weed people kill themselves they're own way, if they wanna smoke it then let them, it should be they're choice to do what they want with they're own life. Its true that it would be more open to kids but who's to say that's not they're parents fault? My point is that people should be able to do whatever they want with they're own lives, it will reduce crime and do well in our economy and its really not worse than tobacco or alcohol.

Michelle LaMay
Michelle LaMay

I am against incorporating and enshrining [any] "regulations," complex and always subject to change into the Constitution of Colorado. The Constitution should only be changed to protect Colorado citizens from tyranny, i.e. the Tabor Act protects us from the 135 legislators freely over-spending our tax dollars on their own and/or their favorite lobbyists' agendas. And, for at least two legislative sessions the governor and the legislature got away with "robbing Peter to pay Paul," taking $ from the Medical MJ Registry to balance the budget, for example in HB10-1284. Nobody cared! The complexity of the issue in the [first] MJ initiative approved, I think, will doom it.

14teener
14teener

The initatives filled by Mason's coalition HAS PASSED the Title Board review. Signatures are going to start being collected asap.

The version that passed includes hemp as an industrial product which can be cultivated, processed and sold. It has a clause were the first $40,000,000.00 in taxes from mj sales goto funding public school infrastructure.

This is a bill we can all get behind and support.

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

David
David

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.Ben Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence

If we want our "independence" we must all hang together.We MUST get behind a single competent advocate or there is a good chance that everyone's valiant efforts will be wasted.David

Michelle LaMay
Michelle LaMay

From CO Revised Statutes 1-40-106: Ballot titles… shall not conflict with those selected for any petition previously filed for the same election…No wonder Safer & Sensible got in early…I'm sure their ready to file their own protest when any other MJ legalization initiative is presented to the title Board. (They do have atty Ramy). Clever lawyers. And if all 8 of their initiatives remain approved after this "protest" on July 6, they pick the "best" of them and only then, 6 mos before Nov 2012, can they file the petition w Secy of State (to be put on ballot) in May of 2012 and start collecting 86,109 legal signatures until sometime in July 2012.

anonymouse
anonymouse

This is the thread that keeps on giving...me a headache.

I see where some of Mason's opponents are coming from but calling his initiative the "Law Enforcement Model" is classic CTI duplicity.  We all know CTI/Levellers has some sour grapes over not being invited to the party way back in 97/98 but damn, let your grudge go ok?  Take it up with Martin Chilcutt in Michigan and Marshall Stiles (oh wait you can't, he's dead), whose names are on Amendment 20.

"Soros paid for it!" is the new battle-cry for these people.  Someone has to pay for it and since nobody in Colorado has stepped up, running an effort like this will require the support of national organizations like NORML and MPP.  Got a million bucks laying around CTI?  Didn't think so.  The reason your lawsuit and campaign lack contributions is due solely to your unprofessional unorganized behavior.  Giving you all money fuels your shit-flinging antics.

Goading Mason into dropping a couple F-bombs on stage and then holding it up as "proof" of his rudeness wins a disingenuity prize too.  You (who know who you are) were behaving like childish obstructionists and deserved the call-out.  Patricia should have nipped that shit in the bud before it got that far.

The July 6 Title Board hearing is sure to be one of the shortest on record as they file Corey's "petition" in the shitcan where it belongs.  Let's quibble about semantics in an ineffectual circle-jerk some more shall we? 

If this is how it's going to be than our collective efforts for progress in 2012 are basically dead.  Stick a fork in them, they're done.  Time is running out.  Smoke less weed and get your shit together people!  Clearly the SAFER effort is trying to do too much too soon and hopefully Mason will take a step back and withdraw his initiatives for some rewriting.  Simple is good, clear and direct and explicit are better.

Shanon Greever
Shanon Greever

    I may not know exactly how this works however, from my understanding, it requires House votes, Senate votes, & a presidential signature in order to take a bill and make it a law. That being said; “I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution.” Ulysses S. Grant     On June 22, 2005 H.R. 3037 the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2005 was introduced to the 109th congress. It was then referred to the “House Judiciary” subcommittee. They referred it to the sub-subcommittee on “Health” where it was suffocated with incompetence &  negligence. On February 12th, 2007 H.R. 1009 the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007 was introduced to the 110th congress. It was then referred to the “House Judiciary” subcommittee. On April 19th it was referred to the Sub-subcommittee on “Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security” where it was suffocated with conflicts of interests, hidden agendas, & intentional negligence. On April 2nd, 2009 H.R.1866 the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2009 was introduced to the 111th congress. It was then referred to the “House Judiciary” subcommittee. On May 25th it was then referred to the Sub-subcommittee on “Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security” where it to was suffocated with the same conflicts of interests, hidden agendas, & intentional negligence as the prior Industrial Hemp Farming Acts received. These bills were introduced and referred to these subcommittees where they were all intentionally sabotaged. Therefore, these bills have not passed & we do not have the jobs, products, & revenues that we should have.    On May 11th, 2011 H.R.1831 the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2011 was introduced 112th congress. It was then referred to the "House Judiciary" & the "House Energy and Commerce" subcommittees. These 2 subcommittees are where H.R.1831 has presently vanished according to my research at opencongress.org. Over the past 6 years & 4 congresses, we’ve introduced 4 Industrial Hemp Farming Acts in which 3 have been suffocated with these conflicts of interests, hidden agendas, intentional negligence’s & there sabotage. We now have a fourth opportunity to re-embrace our cannabis hemp resources. Will we overcome these oppressive prohibitionists that refuse to adopt sensible substance policies & reduce violence, corruption, & disease?     We have 535 representatives in Congress, 435 of them are in the House of Representatives. There are only 21 positions, (with 20 occupied,) in the 112th Congress’s  House of Representative’s House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security. (Mr. Sensenbrenner is the Chairman, Mr. Gohmert is the Vice-Chairman, & the others are Mr. Goodlatte, Mr. Lungren, Mr. Forbes, Mr. Poe, Mr. Chaffetz, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Marino, Mr. Gowdy, Ms. Adams, Mr. Scott, Mr. Cohen, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Pierluisi, Ms. Chu, Mr. Deutch, Ms. Jackson Lee, Mr. Quigley, & there is 1 vacancy.)     These representatives are raking in salaries ranging from $175K to $220K annually while our federal deficit, unemployment rates, & incarceration rates are all at all time highs. "It’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair “When a private enterprise fails, it is closed down; when a government enterprise fails, it is expanded. Isn’t that what’s been happening with drugs?” Milton Friedman "We in this country have to make up our minds, we can not have it both ways: we cannot be both drug-free and free." Lester Grinspoon, M.D. "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson “America’s present need is not heroics, but healing; not nostrums but normalcy, not revolution, but restoration.” Warren g. Harding    Marijuana has given rise to insanity, “not in its users but in the policies directed against it. A nation that sentences the possessor of a single joint to life imprisonment without parole but sets a murderer free after perhaps six years is in the grips of a deep psychosis." - Eric Schlosser. "Congress should definitely consider decriminalizing possession of marijuana... We should concentrate on prosecuting the rapists and burglars who are a menace to society."-Dan Quayle "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. It is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man." -Francis L. Young, "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -Ronald Reagan.    The only way to protect our people is to abolish prohibitionist substance policies. "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition laws. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein “Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation, & makes crimes out of things that are not crimes,” Abraham Lincoln. Penalties against possession of a substance should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of that substance; & where they are, they should be changed. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against possession of marijuana in private for personal use...” Jimmy Carter     Furthermore, “why use up the forests which were centuries in the making & the mines which required ages to lay down, if we can get the equivalent of forest & mineral products in the annual growth of the hemp fields?” Henry Ford “Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, & sow it everywhere!” George Washington "Hemp is the standard fiber of the world. It has great tensile strength and durability. It’s used to produce more than 5,000 textile products, ranging from rope to fine laces, and the woody "hurds" remaining after the fiber has been removed contain more than seventy-seven per cent cellulose, and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products, ranging from dynamite to Cellophane." Popular Mechanics, "Billion Dollar Crop", 1938 Not to mention Energy security.    If the words “Life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness” don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on,” Terence McKenna. “Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country.” -Thomas Jefferson "The greatest service that can be rendered to any country is to add a useful plant to its culture." -Thomas Jefferson     

        

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

Wanda your breaking your "rule" again, what will your owners think of this.

I'm just saying.

420Integrations
420Integrations

AS OF JULY 1 2011 THERE WILL BE NO AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE FOR A MMC OWNER ORPARTNER.

I hope none of us go to jail, yet the bigger question has now become how tohang on and see this "battle through" with all efforts and moniesgoing into compliance?

There is only one way to discern who in this"industry" is really about patients right vs $$$$.

HOW MANY PATIENTS ARE BEING TOLD BY THEIR MMC'S THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BETRACKED BY BIG BROTHER AND YOU ARE GOING TO BE A INSTRUMENT OF THAT??

CAN YOU PROMISE THAT WITH CAMERAS, TRACKING, DAILY LOGS, AND INSPECTOR/INVESTIGATORS UPOUR ASS 1 EVERY 10 DAYS (POTENTIALLY), THAT YOUR PATIENTS INFORMATION ISCONFIDENTIAL? THAT THEIR FAMILY, JOB, INSURANCE AND OTHER IS SAFE FROM FUTURERAMIFICATIONS OF "REGULATIONS"?

MMED has already proven that they are not interested in any patients orapplicants best interest  and/or stateconstitutional rights. They have already went to court against owners who havebeen zoned or banned, assisted on raided, selectively investigated people basedof rumors for months, grossly misrepresented fact and are creating profiles foreach and every individual applicant, investor, locations and more. 

It is totally stupid that any of us continue to fight over some kind of glorythat does not exist. There can not be ego in this movement. We must not bejudgmental and so harsh on each other regardless of our personal issues,different business models or disagreed with business decisions.

You think Corey, Laura and Kathleen are the ones to fight? You better reassessyour energy toward the real enemy - MMED, local law enforcement and FEDs.

Just wait till every MMC location get demonstrators boycotting all efforts tocomply. 

Take a look around, we are on the 3rd generation of dispensary owners. Most ofthe originals have refused to move forward after 1284 was signed, went backunderground, and or continue to press for legalization. How can any of us agreethat Cannabis should be corporate government regulated entities of whichrequires owners and employees to violate federal and state constitutionalrights of their "customers"? THIS IS WRONG!

Why did Wanda and Scott sell their Dispensary if things were so good andregulations were the  way to go. Instead they sold out and moved to thenext thing that was most likely to be least restrictive regarding regulations.

All of Josh S. and all other California owners ass kissing ++++ over the manymonths with law enforcement on all levels clearly has been all for nothing.They may have avoid some serious charges so far but that wont last for ever,plus they are the easiest groups for Vasquez to target.

Boulder dispensary owners like Jill, Jane and others (you know who you are) arealso struggling and would have to admit that any master plan of domination orother has not been realized and things are getting expensive to the point that$99 compliance inspections are being offered. GET REAL......

This industry is a joke.....how can any of us sit back an watch each one of usfall of like files and still sleep at night knowing that even tally that willbe you.

WE MUST UNITE!

Laura, Mason, Bryan, Rob, Wanda, Tim, Kathleen, Jill, Jason, Rev, and theothers who hold influence or are part of this movement need to meet and workthis out now. We must stop going in different directions if there is to be anyprogress in our favor. Can you all move past your pride so we can do this????

WHEN and WHERE – Legalization and some other efforts against State would be a slamdunk if we could pull together, agree on basics and move forward asap.

Michelle LaMay
Michelle LaMay

Wow…a whole new day on this thread…a better debate than the other, don't you think? How about stepping back a few and consider what Danish said about the stats of CA Prop 19: voting against were WOMEN and Baby Boomers! These people, and doesn't everyone know one, do vote and most are on the fence. Starting today, can a list be made and using as much energy and writing skills as is apparent on this blog, a phone call or two made to start to change the mind of a woman or a "baby boomer?" How about your DR or your lawyer? Then, when YOU volunteer to carry a petition, you can get back with that woman you know or that parent, uncle, auntie and get their valid signature. They would probably, IN THE PRIVACY OF THE VOTING BOOTH, vote yes. Please believe me that change happens every day. Toke one up and give somebody a call?  In '06, Mason's initiative lost by 7% and now, five years later, I believe, the backlash against MJ has gained a lot of strength, but in our state amongst knowledgeable and independent voters, and few people vote, marijuana and its users are no longer a threat, but, more like ripe for exploitation.

Whiners Go HOme!
Whiners Go HOme!

To all you whiners about who is not doing what you want to as well as you want it done:What have *you* done lately? Organized any debates? Donated any money? Written any letters to the legislators? No, I didn't think so. Whiny people whining about how things aren't going they're way, but unwilling to do anything about it except whine are a waste of time. Get over it. Cannabis politics is going to get crazier over the next year or so, so you'd better get used to it.

Joey
Joey

A STRONG MODERATOR is essential for this type of debate. Any suggestions for next time?

Can't we all get along?
Can't we all get along?

I think there were good points made by every one except COREY. who appears to be suffer from severe mental illness. The safer supporters in the crowd where the second worse issue. Honestly screaming grow up and booing is just as childish. Then the stokes flying back and forth between Laura and Mason took up most of the time. The other panelists were actually rather on point. So let's examine the "amnesty" that every one seems to think won't pass. Mason said his language allowed for appeal of current charges. So that equals get out of jail. So other than Paul Danish all the panelists had some form of amnesty. Additionally Mr Danish's language Would leave it up to the legislature and that means 1284 as the regulations. Also Masins language is clearly borrowed from 1284. That's not treating marijuana like alcohol. That's simply inaccurate or misrepresentation. If Lauras claim that the title board said their language isn't legalization that would settle that argument. I would also be curious to know if Steve Fox was actually there, if so Mason was being dishonest about Mr Fox's role. I am unsure what Lauras language even was btw. Rev Baker was calm and polite the whole time. I liked that and Mr Calibri and Mr Tvert seemed to agree almost the whole second half of the debate. So what seems to actually be going on us a feud between CTI and SAFER. Patrica Calhoun should have evicted Corey earlier and let the other panelists debate. What Mrs Xalhoun posted above is an example if not doing your homework. The Chaur if the DPA is Mr Soros and the DOA is a coalition member of the SAFER SENSIBLE language and nit only is he mist likely funding it, but certainly had a role. So did Masin get a check personally? No, but Siris us playing a role and Lauras comment on that Aline does seem to hold water. I fir one would like to see this debate again, not in a bar!!! Without the SAFER hate crowd and Mr Corey should be BARRED period! Crazy for justice? How about just Crazy? What part of justice us pointing in a man's face and pretending to vomit? Seriously let the grown folk talk. Wanda you are entitled to your opinion but you seem to be a SAFER apologist. There is nothing wrong with talking just like there is nothing wring with different Ideas. SAFER has jumped the gun almost a year early and there is NO RUSH. I repeat NO RUSH. we have time to discuss this like adults. Is the westword willing to take over these debates so it's not a CTI oriented event? Because there was some actual discussion in between Laura and Masons mutual insults. I think a panel with strict rules about time and behavior could produce the results I for one hoped for.

Wanda
Wanda

The veryfact that SAFER agreed to debate CTI was silly in the first place. WithoutSAFER, Westword nor anyone else would have come or cared. Mason, you know this.

MichaelRoberts, why are you covering these people. I have emails from Corey (AKA Charles Gleason) thatborder on harassment. Mason, if we are not debating the Bloods and the Crips,why are you giving press and recognition to a bunch of people like Corey. COME ON MASON, YOU HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO!!!!!

And what did this accomplish for you and our movement, perhaps you need to be clear on your motives before you agree to debate anyone.  Did you think that this bunch was going to be won over based on facts?  What did you hope would come from this?

Let’s justdo what we do.  Mason, Brian continue tofight with every dime you can get from Peter Lewis.  Keep working with DPA, I believe Ethan Nadelmannto be a complete genius.  His work inorganizing the Global Commission on ending the drug war was fantastic (FivePresidents from around the world spoke up!). Work with every organization thatactually has goal, a plan and funding and leave the trolls alone, please.

CTI can't raise money for any lawsuit of anything else nor will anyone back them. Why are you dealing with them? PLEASE quit giving them any press.

MichaelRoberts, please…this Corey guy is dangerous, for all of our safety, please quitgiving him a forum.  Look him up onFacebook, he goes by Charles Gleason.

Guest
Guest

It appears that some people would rather fight progress than compromise their extreme views for the benefit of the majority. No wonder the cdphe hates the medical marijuana program...what a headache. Marijuana sale is technically illegal in amsterdam but marijuana users there still have safe access to marijuana with little fear of prosecution. To my knowledge, even the most conservative initiative proposed gives more freedoms to colorado marijuana users than the laws of amsterdam (aka pot capital of earth). People deserve safe access to a safe substance without fear of the goverment. Support an initiative that is a compromise between prohibition and legalization that targets the average citizen, conservative and liberal. An initiative pandering to the desires of extremist marijuana supporters has little chance of succeeding. Remember no state has passed an initiative as extreme as the most conservative initiative proposed. Think paul danish or vicente-tvert, or a mix of the two conservative approaches. Anything extreme is unrealistic and is a distraction from the attainable. Please put your differences aside and support each other instead of undermining each others efforts. Stop debating and start collaborating....please!?!?

Ghuest
Ghuest

Paul Danish said it best. What a fucking disaster.

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

I want to make sure everyone knows this, I am actually going to kill the Law Enforcement initiative in front of the State Title Board, your all welcome to come and watch. So all you bickering and hatred is just fulling my enjoyment of getting rid of bad constitutional language.  You can complain all you want and call me Crazy...Crazy for Justice, or insane or a monster but at the end of the day you anonymous people on the internet, Scott Green, Mason, James Macvaney etc. sit there and complain all you want but you can do nothing to stop this, your language in the initiative is bad and it will not be voted on by the people of Colorado it is not legalization it is re-criminalization and that just won't fly in Colorado. 

14teener
14teener

The language is flawed, it does not remove marijuana from the CSA. So no significant arrests with life long severe ramifications are stopped. This is 1284 for the masses. Profit prohibition is not a positive step forward. Any one who supports actual legalization should wait for alternative language that legalizes and removes the drug war complex.

Michelle LaMay
Michelle LaMay

"Shall the Constitution of Colorado prohibit the judicial branch of any government in the state of Colorado to fine or sentence any person for the possession of cannabis?" YES  or NO!

Substantially different from Safer & Sensible's "Regulation?"

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

I am honestly confused by the initiative language it says for the regulation of marijuana in a manner similar to alcohol, yet it mentions alcohol only 2 times and in very specific circumstances yet mentions broadly the Medical Marijuana Code 9 times.  So it is either misleading or confusing on purpose.  It's not really a "protest" I am challenging the language because it does not follow the rules and intentionally misleads people in to believing that they are voting for legalization when they are not.  So basically I am filing because they are lying to the people of Colorado.     

David
David

So ... if Soros wanted to donate money to the Patient and Caregiver Rights Litigation Project ...  that would make the people involved ... what, exactly ?  It appears that they would, then, "change" in some evil way.Minimum, we couldn't trust them anymore.David

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Goodness, how could I forget Josh?  We do not work with people who say they know of black bags of cartel/mafia cash.  period.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Loved everything you posted, but am thrown off at trying to get unity with people willing to sell out patients and caregivers.  I do feel that the people on the panel could unite, minus Mason, who already filed the law enforcement language.

Wanda's "old" patient book was found in Denver next to a dumpster.  She signed away her rights to play hardball.  She helped write hb1284 and supported it.  So did Brian/Sensible.  She hasn't donated money to the lawsuit that needs to be filed on behalf of PATIENTS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

Todays Wanda quotes say it all:  " Without SAFER, Westword nor anyone else would have come or cared"  so at least Wanda believes the audience was SAFER.---and I read two others who also thought that--

and

"CTI can't raise money for any lawsuit of anything else nor will anyone back them. Why are you dealing with them? PLEASE quit giving them any press."

Stop giving press to the ONLY group keeping patients aware of their rights and when they are getting bashed  (FOR FREE!)....I though you were a professional business woman?   oh so bad for business, Wanda. You see patients have NOT been getting email updates from you or anyone in the 'industry'.  Nor Mason/SAFER nor Brian/Sensible.  ONLY CTI.

It's the Patient and Caregiver Rights Litigation Project that has has a REALLY HARD TIME raising money for the PATIENTS and CAREGIVERS lawsuit that will be filed.  Most of the REASON we have not been able to raise money is because business applicants per hb1284 do NOT CARE ENOUGH ABOUT PATIENT or CAREGIVER rights. 

Only 5 hb1284 applicants have donated, again NOTHING FROM WANDA.  WANDA doesn't have  $4.20 for PATIENT RIGHTS.  And neither does Jill or Jane.  Say that again to yourself and realize how F'ed up that is.  Center owners do NOT HAVE $4.20 to donate to PATIENTS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS LAWSUIT.  To be fair-why would Wanda donate money to a lawsuit that challenges something she helped write and supported?  (hb1284).

As far as working with Mason and Brian, Laura has a copy of the first email she sent out to Mason in May of 2010, telling him of our 2012 intent.  Further she has another email to Mason in Aug or Sept. inviting him to work with us and asking him how much he wanted in salary.  I do not know what could be more generous, as none of us work for pay.  Mason did not respond.  Mason did not attend the 2012 kick off in Nov 2010.  And now Mason and Brian have already filed their language a YEAR EARLY.  There is nothing that can be changed or corrected

It is not Rev Baker, Laura, Kathleen, Paul, Rico or Tim that caused this divide.  We are all looking to protect freedom, patients, caregivers and the constitution.  You can't unite with the SAME people putting up the barriers on our rights and freedoms.

14teener
14teener

Who is independent enough is the real question. Patricia seemed biased towards Mason. Also it can't be an event controlled by CTI. A truly neutral event with out the SAFER fanatical team. Perhaps a radio show with no crowd at all?

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

It's the Patient and Caregiver Rights Litigation Project that has has a REALLY HARD TIME raising money for the PATIENTS and CAREGIVERS lawsuit that will be filed.  Most of the REASON we have not been able to raise money is because business applicants per hb1284 do NOT CARE ENOUGH ABOUT PATIENT or CAREGIVER rights. 

Only 5 hb1284 applicants have donated, again NOTHING FROM WANDA.  WANDA doesn't have  $4.20 for PATIENT RIGHTS.  And neither does Jill or Jane.  Say that again to yourself and realize how F'ed up that is.  Center owners do NOT HAVE $4.20 to donate to PATIENTS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS LAWSUIT.  To be fair-why would Wanda donate money to a lawsuit that challenges something she helped write and supported?  (hb1284).

Stop giving press to the ONLY group keeping patients aware of their rights and when they are getting bashed  (FOR FREE!)....I though you were a professional business woman?   oh so bad for business, Wanda. You see patients have NOT been getting email updates from you or anyone in the 'industry'.  Nor Mason/SAFER nor Brian/Sensible.  ONLY CTI.

Dan Pope
Dan Pope

SAFER and SensiCo would do well to separate themselves from these fringe groups. Attempting to work with these groups is counterproductive and harms the movement. Its one thing to disagree and run their own initiative, but all they seem to want to do is disrupt, discredit, and block the SAFER/SensiCo initiative. What kind of reasonable person, who claims to support cannabis reform, would attempt to block another groups progress? Mason made a good point at the debate when he said that he would vote for any other group's initiative that makes it to the ballot, yet I have not heard the same support from any of the fringe groups.

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

Yes,Wanda I am dangerous, to people who sell out the constitution as I and every American should be. Men have fought and died for the constitution something you swore to uphold in your oath when you enlisted in the Navy but quickly sold out for a quick dirty buck as soon as you got the chance.  And I though your "rules" prevent you from commenting on the blog?

And they give us press because we don't sell out to the first person who comes along with a badge and a dollar like some people. Love me or hate me people talk about me and people clicking to read about my antics gives the Westword ad revenue, but your a business woman you should know that. 

You are also the perfect example of how beautifully this system is set up.

1. Give blind, greedy business people the hope that the regulations will not only legitimize the industry but also put their competitors out of business.

2. Watch them agree in the hopes that they will be the ones to survive, because if you work hard enough you too can make it!

3. Introduce fees and systems that the business people have to buy in to so they spend money complying and not fighting the rules.

4. Make sure they have no money to fight back when the time comes to shut down the industry.  50 fines, 9 revocations, 1 raid, 0 licenses

5. Shut it down. 

But you forgot this is not about the bottom line it's about helping sick people who need medicine. 

I will kill the Law Enforcement initiative in front of the Title Review Rehearing, but you were a glorified secretary on a political campaign, you should know how government works. So like I said this is all fine and dandy but you can not stop what I am going to do to this re-criminalization initiative.

PS. Have you found anyone who can cook Caribbean food yet?     

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

I am certain Mr. Danish did not say, "What a Fucking Disaster." 

David
David

When ?  I'd like to be there.Can you also predict a funeral afterwards ?David

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

Listen To The People
Listen To The People

I second that.... you only received 5 donations from 1000-1200 mmj business. That is a .005 percent response rate.

@Katleen Chippi - Doesn't that tell you anything?

What it tells us is that YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT PEOPLE DO NOT WANT WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING!

Listen to the people. They have spoken with their wallets. They have spoken out on here, they have spoken out by not showing up for your 'debate' (lol). And they message you and CTI have received is  GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!!!POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

Wanda
Wanda

So if only 5applicants have donated money out of over 500 - 700 applications, maybe thisisn't about me giving you money. It sounds like you just proved my point thatyou cannot raise money and no one is supporting you.  Period.  

You are notbeing supported because most (at least most of the people i know) have no faithin you, your organization, your motivates, your tactics, your lack of business savvy,your lack of legal understanding and your complete lack of maturity. And sinceonly 5 “applicants” have donated to you, nothing else need be said.

Perhaps ifyou want people to rally around you, you should try a different approach and ifyou want people to give you money you should completely revamp your publicpersona and give people the opportunity to believe in you.

I'm justsaying....

David
David

Well, Mile Hi MMJ Patient tries to inform patients.We have no loyalties to anyone on the biz side - 100% patient oriented.There's more discussion on our forum, BTW.David

14teener
14teener

Actually one guy agreed with Mason and Mason agreed with him. Aren't you paid by Sensible?

Wanda
Wanda

Yes, my husband does a great job cooking Caribbean food and MMJ edibles, but you know that. Perhaps you should come by and tell him to his face what you think about his food and his restauarant, instead of throwing insults on board that has nothing to do with restaurant reviews?

But thanks for the plug.  Given what people are saying about you, i am sure that many on this board would love to come by 8 Rivers Modern Caribbean knowing you will not be there.

Thank you, I appreciate the plug!  www.8riverslodo.com 2007 Top of the Town, 2008 Best of Denver, 2009 Diner's Choice and Denver's largest and Best Rhum Bar featuring over 86 Rhums from around the world.  We also have Denver's only Rhum Flights!  Come on by, Corey will not be there!  LOL

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

He said something along the lines of, if this is how this initiative is going to move forward it's a recipe for disaster. 

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

CoreyDonahue
CoreyDonahue

Yes power to the people not out of state business interests.  And why pray tell should we "get the hell out of here?"  We are defending OUR state from being exploited by carpetbaggers and people who sell-out for a quick buck. 

And where are the patients at all these mmj business?  They don't seem to be returning so they have spoken out against the violations of their constitutional rights by not coming in..so your argument James is full of wholes.  But hey we can't expect too much from you anyways.

George Carl
George Carl

Wanda: Why are you letting the DEA have access to your web cameras? Do you really think patients want to be videotaped making illegal transactions at unlicensed dispensaries and have all that on a direct feed to the DEA? You are a hypocrite! You do not care about patients! All you care about is yourself and greed. You are very transparent and you, and all the other greedy dispensary owners, will get what's coming to them. Weren't you already raided by the DEA a year or so ago? I think I remember so newspaper articles to that effect.

Wanda
Wanda

It is funny how you claim "we hate you"  yet you are the only one calling me out on every blog you write. You have been insulting me for months and have never met me! So yes, your lack maturity is showing.

Apparently, you have been doing this since Amendment 20, which i understand you where against and pisssed off at another group because they left you out.

Kathleen, you have five supporters and everyone else you have pushed away with insults, spreading of rumors and lies and you are actually delusional enough to believe that no one is supporting you becasue of what you stand for with the patients?  No one supports you because you are toxic and come off as unbalanced. 

Why would I give you money?  The first rule of fundraisng is don't insult the people you want to give you money.  You continue to show lack of business accumen and political wherewithal.

As for the decline of patients on the registry, not really a concern.  5000 people a month a still becoming patients, OK? I don't believe anyone thought it would stay at 600 people a day, did you?

Anyway, thank you for the heads up on on my Facebook that you commented about me once again.  I wil not get pulled into this any longer, i am done with you and this subject.  But please continue to speak about me on your blogs, please just make sure your spell my correctly.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

No one in the shrinking 'mmj industry' is supporting the constitution or the patients or caregiver rights--NOT ME.  I'm just saying.......

Get past your own ego far enough to realize this has nothing to do with me, Wanda.  I'm raising money to fight for the constitutional on behalf of everyone.  Who would 'brag' they didn't support that?  Where is that business savvy you claim to have?  I'm just saying......

The patients understand why the MMC applicants have not donated anything......your greedy and you all gave over 8.5 million to the law enforcement officers who are going to regulate you out of business.  But the patients have come through w/o your help.  I'm just saying...........

It's clear the applicants don't support my MOTIVES -- again--- nothing I would publicly brag about.  MY MOTIVE IS CLARIFYING THE CONSTITUTION ON BEHALF OF PATIENTS and CAREGIVERS.   What do you and the rest of the industry have against patient rights?  I'm just saying........

We already understand that applicants don't care about patient privacy and they love having constitutionally protected caregivers gone as they are your competition. 

As far as my tactics and maturity--I could care less what LAW ENFORCEMENT or the General Assembly  or the ball-less "industry' think about how I react to them STOMPING on my and everyone's constitutional rights.  "Kathleen gave the DoR a dirty look. oh my!  Forget her efforts to help save the constitution and patient rights , she disrespected Matt Cook and Dan Hartman, oh my!  Don't give her money, oh my!" 

Really, Wanda--you'll all fuck over the patients because you hate me on a personal level.  How childish is that?   ( and not too business savvy, either)   I'm not looking to kiss the ass of my enemy or freedom's enemy.  I'm just saying.......

800 plus applicants not giving PATIENTS money to help OVERTURN unconstitutional laws isn't surprising---you all paid to play the DoR seed to sale to jail game.  The game includes you all collecting data on patients that will be shared with all law enforcement.  Your all being used by law enforcement.  I'm just saying............

If I were in your shoes I would be more concerned with the new health dept numbers.  THE PATIENTS might not have 800 businesses support, but the registry went from 12,000 app's or renewals a month last year to 5,000/month this year. So you guys are losing 50% of the patients that can 'qualify' to shop in your stores.  And I think it's a pretty good bet to say that  the 5,000-7,000 who didn't sign up this month will be siding with PATIENTS RIGHTS. 

I'm just saying.......

But keep talking on the blogs.  The patients need to see how pathetic you all are to blow off PATIENT RIGHTS over your greed and your hate for me.  I'm pretty sure they are seeing the BIG picture---5,000 to 7,000 of them a month.  And that has not cost us a dollar--so I will not close my mouth, but keep speaking the truth to everyone I meet. 

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

420Integrations
420Integrations

We as patients first, need to decided how these advocacy group work for our benefit. When and where can we (patients) have a legalization debate, not sponsored by any one party but in benefit for the whole.

This needs to happen asap. Open to public, $5 or something small cover charge, simple rules of respect. Each person, or group rep can go over the key items or points in their initiative, then pre arranged questions are asked to each member of panel, finally public comments, wrap up/conclusion.  At the end we could take a vote from audience and tally up who/what has the most backing from the patients/caregivers, general public based of that first real intro and debate. The monies raised that night go to the initiative that gained most support that evening to constitute supporting efforts forward. Ongoing meetings and debates would continue till we all reached one or two ballots that all votes could be given.

I would expect all the heads, regardless of difference of view, be there. No law enforcement there and for sure not MMED. Perhaps only approved press people and only their cameras can take pics??!!!

What is everyone's thoughts....can we do this or not......

Dan Pope
Dan Pope

No, I am not, and have never been, paid for my volunteer work with Sensible Colorado.

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