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Comment of the Day

Reader: Seeing The Book of Mormon and South Park doesn't make you an LDS Church expert

By Michael Roberts Thu., Oct. 13 2011 at 10:27 AM

Categories: Comment of the Day

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Our post about the I'm a Mormon billboard campaign in Denver has spurred some intriguing theological back and forth. Here's the take of a reader who places what she sees as discrimination against Mormons in a historical context, using the name of someone who's already history.

Jim Henson writes:

It's amazing how people in the 21st century are so full of hate towards this religion. When people lashed out at Muslims, the country was quick to reassess the hate as unfair and ignorant, since it was based mostly on assumptions about the connection between Muslims and Terrorists.
The Morman religion deserves equal respect from people as any other. You certainly wouldn't hear this much uproar about Jews. But, then again, it took an entire genocide to get people to lay off a bit.

To assume you know everything about an entire religion by watching two forms of entertainment by Matt Parker and Trey Stone does nothing more than solidify your lack of intelligence. It seems you would believe that Succubus' exist too, since they appeared in an episode of South Park.

The missionaries of the LDS church are indeed quite versed in both the Book of Morman as well as the Bible. Go talk with a missionary. Ask them questions. You will find your foot has been in your lodged in your mouth for some time.

Just like any other form of Advocacy, this is a harmless way for the Mormon Church to attempt to help educate the people of our culture that believe such harsh, negative things about their religion based solely on rumor and the entertainment industry.

Lets all try to be adults of a civilized nation based on freedom of religion and expression and have some respect.

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Religion = Superstitious Nonsense for Ignorant Simpletons Period.
Mormons are not supposed to be Christian because we have some doctrinal differences with other Christian groups of today. The foundation for the beliefs of these other groups is the creeds of the 4th. 5th, and 6th centuries and so on. It is claimed that Mormons are wrong because they believe in extra-Biblical revelation and scripture. Yet much of Christianity believes in extra-Biblical creeds and councils formulated centuries after the time of Christ and the Apostles. Most of the wording formulations in these creeds cannot be found in the Bible. This is often the excuse used to exclude members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) from being Christian. It is well known to historians that Christian doctrine changed over time and across different Christian groups. The bible is then viewed through the lens of these creeds causing certain interpretations to be favored and other biblical teachings to be minimized or ignored. Interestingly, if you look at the doctrines of the early church fathers before the creeds, they are very Mormon-like. In a number of doctrinal areas the early Christians were good Mormons and would be rejected as non-Christian by many Christians of today. In many areas of belief (probably the majority of areas) Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe the same as most other Christians. It is true that in some limited areas – some very critical ones – the beliefs of Mormons differ from other Christians. Likewise there are some major areas of difference between Catholics and Protestants and likewise between one Protestant group and the next. Every denomination could make the claim that the other groups are not Christian because those other beliefs differ from their own. The central belief of Mormons is that Christ came into the world as the Son of God. He healed the sick, caused the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, and restored life to the dead. He commissioned twelve Apostles to whom he gave authority. He suffered in Gethsemane, died on the cross, and was resurrected and will come again. He, and only He, provides the means for us to be washed clean in his blood from our sins, which sins we can never correct on our own or through our own works. If that is not Christian I don’t know what is. Christ never taught the need to believe in anything like the creeds. Those came later. Mormon belief is very much like the teachings of the earlier Christians – before the creeds – and also matches the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. The further back in time you go the more Mormon-like Christian doctrine becomes. More on this later. Mormons are often portrayed as non-Christian when we don’t believe in the later extra-Biblical creedal formulations. The early Christians did not have the extra-Biblical creeds of later centuries. Were they then not Christian? The ontological debates and the wording formations of later centuries are not found in the words of Jesus or the words of the Apostles or in the words of the pre-creedal Christians . There is not a word about a one substance god in the Bible or in the early beliefs. If believing in the creeds is necessary to be Christian then that makes the earlier Christians not Christian – it even makes Christ not Christian. One other interesting aspect of this topic: Some Christians claim that we must get our beliefs and doctrines from the Bible only. It is claimed that God finished his work and no longer has prophets or gives revelation. They say the Mormons are wrong to have prophets and extra scripture. Consider this: If the Bible is sufficient and no post-Biblical revelation is allowed, then the post-Biblical creeds are not necessary and are not authorized by God. If God authorized the creeds then why aren’t they in the Bible? How could they be from God if the Bible is complete, if God has finished his work, and if there is no more revelation? They are extra-Biblical and no one should be held to them as a requirement to be Christian. It is so ironic that Mormons are criticized for having extra-Biblical revelation by people who themselves believe in extra-Biblical creeds. Once one puts on the glasses of the creeds then everything in the Bible is filtered to match the creeds. Mormons believe in original Christianity restored to the earth through revelation to new prophets. Nowhere does the Bible say that God has finished his work, that the cannon of scripture is closed. It seems ironic to us that we Mormons are accused of adding to the Bible by people who have done just that – added creeds and metaphysical definitions to the Bible. We advocate for believing original Christianity. Dwight
These people who are ex-Mormons and anti-Mormons do not describe accurately the beliefs and practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Lartter-day Saints. It’s easy to take someone’s deeply held beliefs and to satirize, sensationalize, exaggerate, and make fun of those beliefs. Would you go to the Ku Klux Klan to learn about racial equality? Would you go to Hitler to learn about treating Jews fairly? Would you go to the Bible with the intent to learn about Christ and Christianity and read only the viewpoint of the Scribes and Pharisees while neglecting to read what Jesus and the Apostles taught? I recommend that if you want to know about the real teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints (Mormons) you should go to Mormon sources like mormon.org or lds.org or to the material published by the Church. Outside “Experts” have a habit of sifting through Mormon history and teachings so they can ignore everything but what they cherry pick and take out of context. Find out for yourself what Mormons believe but don’t learn it from the enemies of Mormonism. Dwight
the Mormons?
None of these assertions are correct. You my friend are a gullible victim of gossip. Ask a Mormon if you really want to know the truth.
The main difference is Joseph Smith willingly died at the hands of anti mormons because he knew God lived and wouldn't deny Christ and what Christ taught him. Why would you want to be associated with a group that would kill if given the chance like the Nazis did to the Jews?
When I was a child, before the internet, only the church leaders had handbooks. Members could ask to look at it but the info wasn't readily available to everyone. It's on wikileaks for a reason. The mormon cult evolves and is making that info available to it's members after it's been leaked...no surprise here. There are many ways the mormon cult organization keeps information secretive as a tactic in group control...mormon temple activities are very secretive even to the members participating which is another CULT tactic. I will say that most mormon are very, very good people. If you are happy being a mormon and it makes you feel like a good person then good for you...I respect your right to believe whatever you want...I just wish you would respect my right to believe in something different than the mormon way. The magic of a cult is that it's only obvious when you are outside looking in. Cult members don't know they are members of a cult. For mormons that aren't happy being members of a cult and don't enjoy a cult lifestyle you may want to read the link below. I challenge any mormon to look at themselves from a different perspect and read all of the information about cults and mind programming linked on this page. How To Deprogram Your Own Mind http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html
They are pretty much like Scientologists if L Ron Hubbard had just stolen Christianity instead of making up his own science fiction.
Here is a version of the "secretive mormon handbook" that is a little easier to search and cross reference with other "secret" mormon leader materials than the pdf you linked to: http://lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church They can try and hide things on their official, public web site from "the weak, the poor, the uneducated, self righteous, the desperate, and the mentally ill," but those of us who are strong and can resist their ploys will always expose them. We will post links to their website all over the internet and expose the hidden truths of "THE CHURCH!" Join us! Just because we're posting these links doesn't make us bad people! We've never been happier! Seriously! We are not bitter! We really aren't! We spend a lot of time doing other things, too. Good things. Not like those mormon cultists!
Are mormons a cult? You decide! Here's a tiny glimpse of what goes on in the mormon church based on my personal experiences as a mormon raised child. Mormons hold summer youth camps annually like many religions. What is different is what goes on at the LDS/Mormon youth camps. Mormons have this obsession on giving or "bearing" testimonies. So, there is one day of mormon youth camp where adults give another one of the many lectures on church doctrine and how mormons have the only TRUE church of God. This particular session is usually on the last day of camp and the lecture lasts for several hours. Youth are encouraged to fast for 24 hours, not eat or drink anything, starting the day before and continuing until fast and testimony was over, usually noon to noon. The meeting starts early in the morning and initially, only the adults speak. Youth are discouraged from going to the bathroom or stepping out for a drink of water during the long lecture since they are supposed to be fasting. After the long lecture, nearing lunchtime ending the fast, the speaker announces that the meeting is almost done, time for testimonies then we will all pray together then everyone can leave, concluding the camp. The adults, speaker and other chaperones, start off each by bearing their testimony which are slight variations of the same, "I know The Church is true. I know the Book of Mormon is True and the Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I believe in God and the Holy Spirit and know that <insert current prophet here> is a true prophet of God." The adults announce that the floor is open for whoever wants to bear a testimony. They start with the first person on the first row and ask them to stand up, say their name, and bear their testimony. Person by person, row by row, the adults use peer pressure to get nervous, tired, hungry young teenagers to stand up and conform to the group. Most kids stand up and give the same cookie cutter testimony and sit down. The pace is slow and drags on lasting another hour or more. A few children are too shy to speak or uncomfortable, the adults pause and ask if they are sure they don't want to say anything and that the child would feel better if they testified. If a child still says no the adults whisper among each other, causing the kids to whisper, humiliating the children that don't testify. After they reached the last person in the last row the adult announces that X number of people chose not to speak and everyone will wait and give the youth that passed on the opportunity to bear testimony one more chance. During this time everyone sits in silence, stomachs growling, people staring at each other out of frustration, until the adult in charge gets visibly frustrated with children that didn't speak, says some closing remarks thanking those that participated and expressing regret for those that didn't and adjourns the session with prayer. Everyone sprints for the bathrooms and water fountains.
wikileaks has much more info leaked from the mormon church http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
On topic with the mormon cult speak, for those interested in starting their own cult, see the con artists handbook. Joseph Smith and Parley P. Pratt were pros. http://www.choice101.com/15-con-artist-basic-rules.html
Hey folks, want to see the secretive mormon handbook all mormons are forced to live but few are ever allowed to see? Download it here... http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6110000 Being secretive is one of the mormon cult's mind control ploys. They try to set the hook with missionaries and will string you along for the rest of your life if you are weak enough to let them. ...and of course I meant sacrement, not decrement in my previous post.
LOL. Born and raised mormon... held the priesthood, blessed your decrement, did baptisms for the dead... Was a role model mormon but was reluctant to serve a mission which is an unacceptable for a mormon boy. The lds draws a line in the sand and uses peer pressure to force young kids to serve missions. Boys that don't serve are shamed, ridiculed, gossiped about, etc. This is what forced me to quit attending church. I kept all the commandments and did everything THE CHURCH ever asked of me except go on a mission and that was all it took for mormons to crucify me. Once a member quits attending church mormons label them inactive and hound them with missionaries, visiting teachers, and home teachers urging them to come back to church. Rejecting the mormon gospel is unfathomable to mormons. I had to take legal action to stop the harassment from THE CHURCH and had my records removed (mormons keep records on everybody). THE CHURCH told my family members that were still mormon that I had resigned...disclosing that information was illegal but I let it go. You have no idea what pain and suffering the mormon CULT has caused me and other family members. I will sleep well knowing I am free to live my life as I wish contrary to the will of the mormon cult. Call me a liar if you can't come to terms with somebody rejecting your beliefs..i don't care. Mormon cult tactics have no control over my life anymore. I know your religion is corrupt...you prey on the weak, the poor, the uneducated, self righteous, the desperate, the mentally ill. Did you take that survey yet? Please post your results. Most christian religions will score roughly 30% likleyhood of being a cult, mormons ans scientologists more like 95%. By the way, leaving THE CHURCH doesn't make me a bad person. Since leaving THE CHURCH I continue to obey all laws of man and god, I just refuse to let group mind dictate what I can and can't do with my life......and I've never been happier! Enjoy your cult! Rofl
LMAO You just wrote a paragraph saying a whole lot, without saying anything at all!! The Mormon specialty... Talking without saying anything. You must be an elder!!! -Hipi
Whoa, who is the idiot who posted the video of the missionaries? Hey Hipi, do you actually believe that this guy talking with the missionaries on the video was historically accurate?! Oh man, how embarrassing? You just vindicated the missionaries with that hilarious presentation of typical "Christian" ignorance. My 11 year old knows his history better than that. Come on. You just lodged your foot in your mouth buddy. Stick to your knowledge of marijuana cultivation and tie-dyed t-shirt making...intelligence passed you up a while ago. Oh and ExMormon, I don't believe you were one. You speak as someone who has NEVER been truly involved or dedicated. Your claims are simply ludicrous. PHONEY ALERT!!!! EX-MORMON IS A LIAR, HE WAS NOT AND IS NOT A MORMON!!
Funny post, Scan. Thanks.
There isn't very much hate, but there are lots of questions about their magical underpants.
Mormons, please read the following if you are seeking truth and wisdom. http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/questionaire.htm http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html
Take it from an ex-mormon, the LDS organization is a cult. Don't vote for Mitt Romney unless you want to be force fed mormon doctrine. Anyone who has ever met a mormon trying to get a convert knows what I am talking about. Mormons think only their way is the right way, they're self-righteous hypocrites, and don't respect free will when exercised. Say goodbye to gay rights, pro choice, and separation of church and state. With Mitt we'll get nothing but shit. By the way jim hensen, perhaps you should read the title of the book your religion is based on....it's MORMON, not mormAn. P.S. If your organization would leave me the fuck alone I would leave you and your fellow worshipers alone. NO means NO assholes!
Sorry, you lost us at "hate". That knee-jerk defensiveness is the harbinger to hypocritical insults and unfounded arguments. The rest of the posting proves it. If you had left it at the second-to-last sentence, you may have been taken seriously, but sadly, no. Just another religious nut.
your elders in action.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1u2Abe95B8
Your assertion that Mormon missionaries know scripture... I don't believe you. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Black+christians+mormons&aq=f
LOL. BYU didn't exclude Blacks until 1978? Joseph Smith wasn't martyred a la Warren Jeffs in his fight for the right to Polygamy? Mormons don't elect Elders who have never read scripture? The Book of Mormon isn't an amendment to the Bible? Nobody has to "Make stuff up" about the Mormon cult, its all there in plain daylight.