Reader: Seeing The Book of Mormon and South Park doesn't make you an LDS Church expert

Our post about the I'm a Mormon billboard campaign in Denver has spurred some intriguing theological back and forth. Here's the take of a reader who places what she sees as discrimination against Mormons in a historical context, using the name of someone who's already history.

Jim Henson writes:

It's amazing how people in the 21st century are so full of hate towards this religion. When people lashed out at Muslims, the country was quick to reassess the hate as unfair and ignorant, since it was based mostly on assumptions about the connection between Muslims and Terrorists.

The Morman religion deserves equal respect from people as any other. You certainly wouldn't hear this much uproar about Jews. But, then again, it took an entire genocide to get people to lay off a bit.

To assume you know everything about an entire religion by watching two forms of entertainment by Matt Parker and Trey Stone does nothing more than solidify your lack of intelligence. It seems you would believe that Succubus' exist too, since they appeared in an episode of South Park.

The missionaries of the LDS church are indeed quite versed in both the Book of Morman as well as the Bible. Go talk with a missionary. Ask them questions. You will find your foot has been in your lodged in your mouth for some time.

Just like any other form of Advocacy, this is a harmless way for the Mormon Church to attempt to help educate the people of our culture that believe such harsh, negative things about their religion based solely on rumor and the entertainment industry.

Lets all try to be adults of a civilized nation based on freedom of religion and expression and have some respect.


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24 comments
Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Religion = Superstitious Nonsense for Ignorant Simpletons

Period.

dhrogers
dhrogers

Mormonsare not supposed to be Christian because we have some doctrinal differenceswith other Christian groups of today. The foundation for the beliefs of theseother groups is the creeds of the 4th. 5th, and 6th centuries and so on.

 

It is claimed that Mormons are wrong because they believe inextra-Biblical revelation and scripture. Yet much of Christianity believes in extra-Biblical creeds and councilsformulated centuries after the time of Christ and the Apostles.  Most of the wording formulations in thesecreeds cannot be found in the Bible. This is often the excuse used to exclude members of the Church of JesusChrist of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) from being Christian.    It is well known to historians thatChristian doctrine changed over time and across different Christian groups.

 

Thebible is then viewed through the lens of these creeds causing certaininterpretations to be favored and other biblical teachings to be minimized orignored. Interestingly, if you look at the doctrines of the early churchfathers before the creeds, they are very Mormon-like. In a number of doctrinalareas the early Christians were good Mormons and would be rejected asnon-Christian by many Christians of today.

 

Inmany areas of belief (probably the majority of areas) Members of the Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe the same as most otherChristians. It is true that in some limited areas – some very critical ones –the beliefs of Mormons differ from other Christians. Likewise there are somemajor areas of difference between Catholics and Protestants and likewisebetween one Protestant group and the next. Every denomination could make theclaim that the other groups are not Christian because those other beliefsdiffer from their own.

 

Thecentral belief of Mormons is that Christ came into the world as the Son of God.He healed the sick, caused the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf tohear, and restored life to the dead. He commissioned twelve Apostles to whom hegave authority. He suffered in Gethsemane, died on the cross, and wasresurrected and will come again. He, and only He, provides the means for us tobe washed clean in his blood from our sins, which sins we can never correct onour own or through our own works. If that is not Christian I don’t know whatis. Christ never taught the need to believe in anything like the creeds. Thosecame later.

 

Mormonbelief is very much like the teachings of the earlier Christians – before thecreeds – and also matches the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. The furtherback in time you go the more Mormon-like Christian doctrine becomes. More onthis later. Mormons are often portrayed as non-Christian when we don’t believein the later extra-Biblical creedal formulations.

 

Theearly Christians did not have the extra-Biblical creeds of later centuries.Were they then not Christian? The ontological debates and the wordingformations of later centuries are not found in the words of Jesus or the wordsof the Apostles or in the words of the pre-creedal Christians . There is not aword about a one substance god in the Bible or in the early beliefs. Ifbelieving in the creeds is necessary to be Christian then that makes theearlier Christians not Christian – it even makes Christ not Christian.

 

Oneother interesting aspect of this topic: Some Christians claim that we must getour beliefs and doctrines from the Bible only. It is claimed that God finishedhis work and no longer has prophets or gives revelation. They say the Mormonsare wrong to have prophets and extra scripture. Consider this: If the Bible issufficient and no post-Biblical revelation is allowed, then the post-Biblicalcreeds are not necessary and are not authorized by God. If God authorized thecreeds then why aren’t they in the Bible? How could they be from God if theBible is complete, if God has finished his work, and if there is no morerevelation? They are extra-Biblical and no one should be held to them as arequirement to be Christian. It is so ironic that Mormons are criticized forhaving extra-Biblical revelation by people who themselves believe in extra-Biblicalcreeds. Once one puts on the glasses of the creeds then everything in the Bibleis filtered to match the creeds.

 

Mormonsbelieve in original Christianity restored to the earth through revelation tonew prophets.  Nowhere does the Bible saythat God has finished his work, that the cannon of scripture is closed.  It seems ironic to us that we Mormons areaccused of adding to the Bible by people who have done just that – added creedsand metaphysical definitions to the Bible. We advocate for believing original Christianity.

 

Dwight

dhrogers
dhrogers

These people who are ex-Mormonsand anti-Mormons do not describe accurately the beliefs and practices of the Churchof Jesus Christ of Lartter-day Saints.

 

It’s easy to take someone’sdeeply held beliefs and to satirize, sensationalize, exaggerate, and make funof those beliefs.  Would you go to the KuKlux Klan to learn about racial equality? Would you go to Hitler to learn about treating Jews fairly?  Would you go to the Bible with the intent tolearn about Christ and Christianity and read only the viewpoint of the Scribesand Pharisees while neglecting to read what Jesus and the Apostles taught?  I recommend that if you want to know aboutthe real teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints (Mormons)you should go to Mormon sources like

 

mormon.org or lds.org

 

or to the material published bythe Church.  Outside “Experts” have a habit of sifting through Mormon history andteachings so they can ignore everything but what they cherry pick and take outof context. 

 

Findout for yourself what Mormons believe but don’t learn it from the enemies ofMormonism.

 

Dwight

Hipi
Hipi

They are pretty much like Scientologists if L Ron Hubbard had just stolen Christianity instead of making up his own science fiction. 

ExMormon
ExMormon

Are mormons a cult?  You decide!  Here's a tiny glimpse of what goes on in the mormon church based on my personal experiences as a mormon raised child.

Mormons hold summer youth camps annually like many religions.  What is different is what goes on at the LDS/Mormon youth camps.  Mormons have this obsession on giving or "bearing" testimonies. So, there is one day of mormon youth camp where adults give another one of the many lectures on church doctrine and how mormons have the only TRUE church of God.  This particular session is usually on the last day of camp and the lecture lasts for several hours.  Youth are encouraged to fast for 24 hours, not eat or drink anything, starting the day before and continuing until fast and testimony was over, usually noon to noon.  The meeting starts early in the morning and initially, only the adults speak.  Youth are discouraged from going to the bathroom or stepping out for a drink of water during the long lecture since they are supposed to be fasting.  After the long lecture, nearing lunchtime ending the fast, the speaker announces that the meeting is almost done, time for testimonies then we will all pray together then everyone can leave, concluding the camp.  The adults, speaker and other chaperones, start off each by bearing their testimony which are slight variations of the same, "I know The Church is true.  I know the Book of Mormon is True and the Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.  I believe in God and the Holy Spirit and know that <insert current="" here="" prophet=""> is a true prophet of God."  The adults announce that the floor is open for whoever wants to bear a testimony.  They start with the first person on the first row and ask them to stand up, say their name, and bear their testimony.  Person by person, row by row, the adults use peer pressure to get nervous, tired, hungry young teenagers to stand up and conform to the group.  Most kids stand up and give the same cookie cutter testimony and sit down.  The pace is slow and drags on lasting another hour or more.  A few children are too shy to speak or uncomfortable, the adults pause and ask if they are sure they don't want to say anything and that the child would feel better if they testified.  If a child still says no the adults whisper among each other, causing the kids to whisper, humiliating the children that don't testify.  After they reached the last person in the last row the adult announces that X number of people chose not to speak and everyone will wait and give the youth that passed on the opportunity to bear testimony one more chance.  During this time everyone sits in silence, stomachs growling, people staring at each other out of frustration, until the adult in charge gets visibly frustrated with children that didn't speak, says some closing remarks thanking those that participated and expressing regret for those that didn't and adjourns the session with prayer.  Everyone sprints for the bathrooms and water fountains.</insert>

WakeUp
WakeUp

On topic with the mormon cult speak, for those interested in starting their own cult, see the con artists handbook. Joseph Smith and Parley P. Pratt were pros.

http://www.choice101.com/15-co...

ExMormon
ExMormon

Hey folks, want to see the secretive mormon handbook all mormons are forced to live but few are ever allowed to see? Download it here...

http://thepiratebay.org/torren...

Being secretive is one of the mormon cult's mind control ploys. They try to set the hook with missionaries and will string you along for the rest of your life if you are weak enough to let them. ...and of course I meant sacrement, not decrement in my previous post.

JSorensonMD
JSorensonMD

Whoa, who is the idiot who posted the video of the missionaries? Hey Hipi, do you actually believe that this guy talking with the missionaries on the video was historically accurate?! Oh man, how embarrassing? You just vindicated the missionaries with that hilarious presentation of typical "Christian" ignorance. My 11 year old knows his history better than that. Come on. You just lodged your foot in your mouth buddy. Stick to your knowledge of marijuana cultivation and tie-dyed t-shirt making...intelligence passed you up a while ago.

Oh and ExMormon, I don't believe you were one. You speak as someone who has NEVER been truly involved or dedicated. Your claims are simply ludicrous.

PHONEY ALERT!!!! EX-MORMON IS A LIAR, HE WAS NOT AND IS NOT A MORMON!!

scan by your plan
scan by your plan

There isn't very much hate, but there are lots of questions about their magical underpants.

ExMormon
ExMormon

Take it from an ex-mormon, the LDS organization is a cult. Don't vote for Mitt Romney unless you want to be force fed mormon doctrine. Anyone who has ever met a mormon trying to get a convert knows what I am talking about. Mormons think only their way is the right way, they're self-righteous hypocrites, and don't respect free will when exercised. Say goodbye to gay rights, pro choice, and separation of church and state. With Mitt we'll get nothing but shit. By the way jim hensen, perhaps you should read the title of the book your religion is based on....it's MORMON, not mormAn. P.S. If your organization would leave me the fuck alone I would leave you and your fellow worshipers alone. NO means NO assholes!

BetweenTheLines
BetweenTheLines

Sorry, you lost us at "hate".  That knee-jerk defensiveness is the harbinger to hypocritical insults and unfounded arguments.  The rest of the posting proves it.  If you had left it at the second-to-last sentence, you may have been taken seriously, but sadly, no.  Just another religious nut.

Hipi
Hipi

LOL. BYU didn't exclude Blacks until 1978? Joseph Smith wasn't martyred a la Warren Jeffs in his fight for the right to Polygamy?

Mormons don't elect Elders who have never read scripture?

The Book of Mormon isn't an amendment to the Bible?

Nobody has to "Make stuff up" about the Mormon cult, its all there in plain daylight.

dcarter1977
dcarter1977

 The main difference is Joseph Smith willingly died at the hands of anti mormons because he knew God lived and wouldn't deny Christ and what Christ taught him.  Why would you want to be associated with a group that would kill if given the chance like the Nazis did to the Jews?

Brock
Brock

Here is a version of the "secretive mormon handbook" that is a little easier to search and cross reference with other "secret" mormon leader materials than the pdf you linked to: http://lds.org/handbook/handbo... 

They can try and hide things on their official, public web site from "the weak, the poor, the uneducated, self righteous, the desperate, and the mentally ill," but those of us who are strong and can resist their ploys will always expose them. We will post links to their  website all over the internet and expose the hidden truths of "THE CHURCH!" 

Join us! Just because we're posting these links doesn't make us bad people! We've never been happier! Seriously! We are not bitter! We really aren't! We spend a lot of time doing other things, too. Good things. Not like those mormon cultists! 

ExMormon
ExMormon

LOL. Born and raised mormon... held the priesthood, blessed your decrement, did baptisms for the dead... Was a role model mormon but was reluctant to serve a mission which is an unacceptable for a mormon boy. The lds draws a line in the sand and uses peer pressure to force young kids to serve missions. Boys that don't serve are shamed, ridiculed, gossiped about, etc. This is what forced me to quit attending church. I kept all the commandments and did everything THE CHURCH ever asked of me except go on a mission and that was all it took for mormons to crucify me. Once a member quits attending church mormons label them inactive and hound them with missionaries, visiting teachers, and home teachers urging them to come back to church. Rejecting the mormon gospel is unfathomable to mormons. I had to take legal action to stop the harassment from THE CHURCH and had my records removed (mormons keep records on everybody). THE CHURCH told my family members that were still mormon that I had resigned...disclosing that information was illegal but I let it go. You have no idea what pain and suffering the mormon CULT has caused me and other family members. I will sleep well knowing I am free to live my life as I wish contrary to the will of the mormon cult. Call me a liar if you can't come to terms with somebody rejecting your beliefs..i don't care. Mormon cult tactics have no control over my life anymore. I know your religion is corrupt...you prey on the weak, the poor, the uneducated, self righteous, the desperate, the mentally ill. Did you take that survey yet? Please post your results. Most christian religions will score roughly 30% likleyhood of being a cult, mormons ans scientologists more like 95%. By the way, leaving THE CHURCH doesn't make me a bad person. Since leaving THE CHURCH I continue to obey all laws of man and god, I just refuse to let group mind dictate what I can and can't do with my life......and I've never been happier! Enjoy your cult! Rofl

Hipi
Hipi

LMAO

You just wrote a paragraph saying a whole lot, without saying anything at all!!

The Mormon specialty... Talking without saying anything. You must be an elder!!!

-Hipi

John Ross
John Ross

None of these assertions are correct.  You my friend are a gullible victim of gossip. 

Ask a Mormon if you really want to know the truth. 

ExMormon
ExMormon

When I was a child, before the internet, only the church leaders had handbooks.  Members could ask to look at it but the info wasn't readily available to everyone.  It's on wikileaks for a reason.  The mormon cult evolves and is making that info available to it's members after it's been leaked...no surprise here.  There are many ways the mormon cult organization keeps information secretive as a tactic in group control...mormon temple activities are very secretive even to the members participating which is another CULT tactic.  I will say that most mormon are very, very good people.  If you are happy being a mormon and it makes you feel like a good person then good for you...I respect your right to believe whatever you want...I just wish you would respect my right to believe in something different than the mormon way.  The magic of a cult is that it's only obvious when you are outside looking in.  Cult members don't know they are members of a cult.  For mormons that aren't happy being members of a cult and don't enjoy a cult lifestyle you may want to read the link below.  I challenge any mormon to look at themselves from a different perspect and read all of the information about cults and mind programming linked on this page.

How To Deprogram Your Own Mind http://www.orange-papers.org/o...

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