Medical marijuana: Could Fort Collins ban lead to hundreds of new home grows?

Thumbnail image for marijuana budtender.jpg
The successful vote to prohibit medical marijuana retail operations in Fort Collins led to the Valentine's Day closure of all the city's dispensaries. This week, the city council formalized the ban and decided on new rules for home grows, which one member predicts could soon number in the hundreds -- an outcome that may come as a shock to the very people who nixed MMCs in the first place.

As Councilman Ben Manvel notes, "We decided to allow grows in single-family homes and leave in our standard of caregiver-plus one and twelve plants per house" -- decisions that are generating controversy, as well as litigation-threats.

"We're already getting e-mails about being sued," Manvel reveals. Example: a note from "a person who lives in a multi-family building in Fort Collins. He has a card and he figures it's between him and his insurance company and his mortgage company if he has a home grow. The constitution says he enjoys reasonable access to medical marijuana, so he wants to know how it's legal that we're not letting him grow marijuana in his home just because there's another unit there. So there's a question about the legal defensibility of this."

Manvel is uncertain if the e-mailer's argument is viable: "I'm not a lawyer, so I'll let them fight it out," he says. However, he admits that "I have a problem on the basis of fairness. I have enough money to own a house, so I can grow marijuana in my back window if I have a card. But someone in a duplex cannot grow marijuana in their back window even if their landlord is okay with it."

ben manvel.jpg
Ben Manvel.
Still, Manvel wound up voting in favor of the single-family home limitation "because I do think there are hazards in any marijuana grow, although there were some efforts to exaggerate them by various people" at the Tuesday council meeting where the decision was reached. "They made it sound like it was meth or something. But there are hazards of humidity and mold and high electricity use and home invasion, and to impose those on co-residents of a multi-family dwelling is also problematic."

The council plans to monitor the new rules' implementation with an eye toward possible tweaks in the future. But Manvel thinks supporters of the ban are likely to discover that, in this case, the solution to what they saw as a problem may turn out to be more troublesome than the previous scenario.

"I think people supporting the initiative, Initiative 300, were basically saying, 'We can get rid of marijuana in Fort Collins,'" Manvel allows. "Those people who were running the campaign against 300, and those of us on council who supported our existing rules, were trying to make people understand that marijuana is going to be here in Fort Collins because of the state constitutional amendment, and that if we didn't have dispensaries and commercial grows, we were going to have household grows and the caregiver model, where we have absolutely no knowledge of where they are and no way to inspect them. It leaves us in a wild-west state, and we really didn't want to go there -- but that's where we wound up."

Page down to continue reading our interview with Fort Collins councilman Ben Manvel.


My Voice Nation Help
117 comments
Sort: Newest | Oldest
Anna Hall
Anna Hall

People just don't get it. Banning the stores was never about removing pot from the community. It was about removing the social approval of pot from the community. Think of it this way. We all know that some men patronize prostitutes, but we don't want a brothel on main street where Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith walk out proud as can be in the middle of the day. If you're going to do something immoral, you should have to do it under the cover of darkness, in the back room of your house, ashamed of getting caught. At least have the good decency to hide your bad behavior. 

 fort collins homes for sale
fort collins homes for sale

 There are several factors that can change the market trend for real estate. As a homebuyer or a real estate investor, it is essential for you to know that the market for real estate varies from time to time because of so many reasons. There are moments that you,

 fort collins homes for sale
fort collins homes for sale

 

So, you already have a budget for your plans on investing in a Fort Collins real estate and you are too excited to hunt for Fort Collins homes for sale that you like with price range you can afford. However, if you have not consider the market trend yet or you do not have enough understanding of the housing market trend, it would be best if you slow down your investing plans a little bit.

fort collins foreclosures
fort collins foreclosures

 No place is like home, as Dorothy says, and Kansas may just be home for you as well if foreclosure properties are what you are looking for.

More importantly, you should consider living in Overland Park, a beautiful suburb in Kansas that boasts of some of the best schooling choices

in the country. The town also has a 300-acre botanical garden and arboretum to show off as well as a 12-field soccer complex for sports-mad

fans. There is also a biweekly farmer's market to enjoy.

Tintman71
Tintman71

We dont "need" alcohol. They sure let it ruin lives!!!

Mikeyb
Mikeyb

Way to go Ray! I think that Ray should take a good look at NYC where 50,000 people were arrested last year for small amounts of MJ. Taking up over 50% of their judicial systems time and expense to continue to fight a loosing battle. I would also encourage Mr Martines and his clan to take a really good look at Portugal where marijuana along with all drugs have been legal for five years. What the studies have shown is that people are going to use drugs weather they are legal or not. The fact that they were legal actually did not change the percentages of people using them. Surprise....what a shocker. How soon people forget the history of alcohol prohibition. I would like to remind Ray Martinez of a couple of things called the 18th and 21st Amendments. Making alcohol illegal did nothing but make a bunch of real criminals mega rich, while at the same it made criminals out of otherwise everyday citizens. So to you Ray I say way to go bud.....way to go. I will say a prayer for Ray tonight. I will pray that he is never put into a situation where he has no choice but to change his views. Where by, God forbid that he, or a loved one, is put into a situation where they are forced into having to try anything to alleviate their own or their loved ones suffering. Believe it or not Ray, for some people this is actually about improving the quality of, or even extending their lives. I pray that you never have to really know what it is like to be willing to try anything to take a little bit of the pain away. Then after finding something that actually works with out slowly killing your body and mind. Then to find yourself having to defend it and yourself against people like you and your friends. This issue is much different from alcohol for this reason, their are too many people like myself. Never say that you could not end up in my situation.Way to go Ray!

6string
6string

In some way I hope an attorney finds a way to sue the crap out of the city of fort collins in the tune of millions, maybe then when their assets are depleted they will think back to the revenue they received from the mmj business.  Then I wonder if the two gentlemen I have seen on "american weed' will give their bank accounts to the city that will definitely have gone to pot.  or even better allow the citizen's to sue these two morons.

AZ_MMJ_Cardholder
AZ_MMJ_Cardholder

Have been following your city's fight against MMJ on NatGeo "American Weed" show.  The city police appear as monster bullies, twisting the phrase "public view" into something unbelievably insane.  They sent more a dozen cops in ninja suits and swat gear to bully ONE caregiver with 3 pot plants on his back porch?   That's a mighty expensive bust on someone who was Not breaking any laws.  The ex-mayor claimed a 12 plant grow produces 2 lbs/month on a radio talkshow?  Where did he get his "facts"? 

The entire town -- all of you -- appear confused, unorganized, greedy and divisive.  Why couldn't you ALL sit down and build a working, reasonable solution like gown-ups?  I live in AZ and we are just beginners, and had hoped that places like Colorado could be good role models. HAAA!  A friend had his car broken into, and a handgun stolen from it.  The cops didn't even bother to finger-print the auto, yet they too sent 9 officers to raid a neighbor's house on an anon tip late one night -- he and wife had MMJ cards and were legal.  Is this how our taxpayer $$ is going to be spent? Chasing legal home grows, so they can't afford a 20 min. fingerprint job on a missing gun??

We ALL need to give more RATIONAL thought on the judicious use of limited resources, and make sure that any "facts" used are just that, the facts, not hysterical rantings. Who inspected the pot the cops have seized from children to make sure it's MMJ and not from other sources?  Patients must be held responsible for keeping their MMJ safe - blaming others is irrational and solves nothing.  STOP all the bickering and finger-pointing!  Everyone take several deep breaths, and begin to talk about realistic ways to create a win-win solution.

WhiteRabbit77
WhiteRabbit77

Sue the city now. These politicians ought to be voted out next election, or recalled now for dereliction of duty. They do not represent those who voted them into the position, and should be fired.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

You couldn't even get enough votes to allow Big $$ Dispensaries in Ft. Collins, what makes delusional stoners think they can get enough votes to remove the politicians?

LOL!

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

 Said the drug dealer, supplying inferior product.

Mark Slaugh
Mark Slaugh

They can't keep working on it. At least in Aurora, people can drive outside the city a few miles to access a dispensary. What do they citizens of Ft. Collins expect to happen now..

http://csbj.com/2010/07/30/let...

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Amendment 20 allows Patients and Caregivers to grow their own, same as it was for 8+ years before the Dispensary Clowns made a nuisance of themselves.

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

 Still whining, dealer? What's wrong... your shit bud, can't keep up?

urallinsane
urallinsane

Don't get me wrong, I would encourage those patients who can grow to grow, or to find a caregiver they trust.  Most of the patients I know, can't physically grow for themselves and, like myself, had their trusted caregiver start a dispensary.  I stick with the same group of brothers who grew for me under amendment 20, but now grow for me under the new hb's.  Because they have made it through the rules and have more patients, they now have even better pricing on meds than before.  My original caregiver told me all along that this is what they wanted to see happen for patients.    You can call dispensary owners clowns all you want, but it sounds to me that there is some jealousy and that some of you are pissed off that you can't sell a medicine at a rediculous price anymore.  Dispensaries aren't a nuisance to me or other real patients.

Denver MMJ Patient
Denver MMJ Patient

Can someone say reversal of 300 come voting season? While I do believe that locals should have the right to vote against medical marijuana businesses in their community, I also believe each and every voter has the responsibility to know exactly what they are voting for before they carry out the action of voting. Therefore, everyone who is going to be 'surprised' by the amount of home grows and the return of the black market to their community, will get their just deserts, and hopefully will research legislation they vote on in the future, especially medical marijuana legislation.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Patients and Caregivers growing their own under Amendment 20 are NOT the "black market".

Ft. Collins managed just fine under Amendment 20 for 8+ years before the greedy dispensary clowns showed up, Ft. Collins will do just fine without them.

Good riddance !

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

Dealers like you... are the black market.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Typical stoner ... 3 weeks late to the party.

FAIL!

Jesay12
Jesay12

Fort Collins you get what you deserve. Increase in Crime and marijuana. Scoot Crandel is a complete moron. The ex mayor sure left fort Collins with a mess. You deserve it.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

" ... we were going to have household grows and the caregiver model, where we have absolutely no knowledge of where they are and no way to inspect them."

That's EXACTLY the way it's supposed to be under Amendment 20, you statist stooge!

**** Legalize Marijuana Like Oregano !! ****

Nope
Nope

 seriously donkey, things would be better than they are now with I30.  caregivers like yourself could transition to licensed "MARIJUANA CULTIVATION FACILITIES" and are back in the loop to supplying to dispensaries.  you say MMCs have shit weed well vote yes on I30 and you can get your fine buds back on the shelf.  after all, the MMCs grow your own text is was really seemed to upset caregivers when hb1284 was written.  I30 isn't perfect but it's better than what we've got.

ChristianB
ChristianB

Question - if the state regulated MMJ system is so bad for patients, why is it FAR FAR easier and cheaper (with more variety) for me to access my medicine than it was in 2006, 07, 08 when I had to go to the meet up groups or drive to Wheat Ridge or Boulder to buy $50 - $60 1/8ths from people that I did not know (with medicine that was good sometimes, terrible others, but NEVER consistent)?  The truth that you cannot admit is that this is bad for CAREGIVERS who want to make $$$$$$$$, not patients, just like I30 would be great for patients who no longer want to put their name on a list that "slips out" (see the news today) accidentally and can cost them their livelihood, not to mention the fact that many respectable physicians are unwilling to recommend this plant to patients because of the witch hunt that goes on. 

Goliath_david
Goliath_david

Exactly. Donkey wants to charge 50 an 1/8th like the good ole days

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Still whining?

Your short-bus left 3 weeks ago, stoner.

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

 Thank you, for proving our point, moonbat.

You are a relic of days, gone past. You need to grow up and adapt.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"patients who no longer want to put their name on a list that "slips out" (see the news today) accidentally and can cost them their livelihood,"

In hb 1284 there is MUCH MORE than a "slip" when it comes to breaching the CDPHE optional confidential registry but at least you admit they can lose their livelihoods.

The state statue's INTENT IS breaching everyone's privacy via the "integrated database" linked and access-able to the Dept of Motor Vehicles, the Dept of Labor and Employment, the ATF and ALL law enforcement and the DoR pot cops. 

Your MMC law you seem to love so much annihilates patients privacy and then their lives.

So that must make you a prohibitionist advising us to vote for I30.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Your post first implies that patients have it great with MMC's and then you elude to the fact that the registry has been breached as a reason to pass I30--so you no longer have to worry about a registry breach.

HELLO!  The ONLY people REQUIRED to put their name on the registry are the patients who want to shop at MMC's.  The language of hb1284 that contains this harmful requirement to patients was supported by MIGG, Sensible and Brian Vicente and Betty.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Why do you hate Primary Caregivers who were authorized and protected by the Colorado Constitution ?

Being that there are more than 10x as many private caregivers as there are retail dispensaries, you must have been one ostracized loser to not have been able to hook-up with more than a few reliable ones.

Sucks to be you, don't it?

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

 Hate caregivers? You rag on the dispensaries, because they HURT YOUR BUSINESS MODEL. It doesn't have anything to do with compassion, the patients... it has to do, with you're a f'ing drug dealer, basically and the dispensary model, put you out of business. In other words, you were too #$%ing stupid to see where the market is headed. What you're still to stupid to see, is the dispensary model, WILL be back... and hopefully, your dumbass will be out of business. Sucks to be him? No... must suck to be you, you'll still be the same stupid bastard, when they day comes.

Rosskarr
Rosskarr

Right there with ya! Too bad she couldn't find a good caregiver. Shit happens an don't blame it on the system. Grow your own then if ur gonna whine bout product. That's what I did. That's why I started growing in the first place and that's what made me a great grower. Practice makes perfect.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Only Big $$ Dispensary lobbyists and shills would refer to the constitutionally protected Amendment 20 patient/caregiver model as a "backfire" vs. the puerile pot clown show that the greedy dispensary dealers promoted.

Kicking the carpetbagging greedhead dispensary clowns out of town and returning to the private Patient/Caregiver model authorized by Amendment 20 is a victory for ALL patients and caregivers.

Enlightenedfinancials
Enlightenedfinancials

 What big dollar dispensary's?    Last I heard many are just trying to pay their bills.   And so what if a businessman who takes the big financial risks is rewarded?   It's the American way!

James12
James12

Because donkey is a drug dealer. Dispensary's hurt is profit margin.

BigDogJunction
BigDogJunction

 Yep... drug dealer. You are about the biggest @#$%ing moron, I've come across in this discussion. Go away, dumb@ss... your credibility it shit. Oh yeah... I don't give a $hit how long you've been around.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

MMJ Dispensaries are drug dealers. HB1284 and I30 help them corner the market ...... at the expense of Patients and Caregiver rights.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

You sound like an apologist for the Wall Street Bankers ...

This Sucks
This Sucks

Who's up for banning churches in communities?  The majority pushing around the minority is not freedom.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists."  Abbie Hoffman

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Tax the Churches !!

This Sucks
This Sucks

Tax the churches, charge them outrageous state and local licensing fees, then ban them!  It would suck to be those churches.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Manvel points out that "everyone on council is wanting to respect the will of the voters, even though it was a very close vote."

"Wanting to respect the will of the voters?"  hahaha,  this is funny in so many ways. 

The majority of the voters voted FOR MMJ in 2000.  A20 is a state constitutional amendment and only mentions patients and caregivers.  The MAIN POINT of A20 was to provider patients ACCESS to mmj.  Dispensing IS MENTIONED in Article 18 section 14 as something non criminal IF it is medical. 

ACCESS: to gain access to. 

"Wanting to respect the will of the voters?"  How about the city of Ft Collins has NO LEGAL RIGHT to LIMIT patients or their caregivers to 12 plants, 1 patient or detached residents.  NONE!

This should be challenged in the court of law, however I'm not expecting it to be, because SICK patients do NOT have tens of thousands of dollars to do so. 

And the "center" applicants spent their money on the wrong attorney and the wrong lawsuit.  The "industry" "center" applicants CAN be banned as applicants first GAVE UP THEIR CAREGIVER status/protections under the constitution and instead opted for the BAN-ABLE "center" option offered by the state statute. hb1284. 

The voters HAVE the RIGHT to BAN "centers" as they are statutory. ONLY a STATE vote can overturn article 18 section 14 of the constitution. 

Rosskarr
Rosskarr

In 2000 I lived in Fort Collins and the amount of illegal grow ops was astounding. I knew so many of them. Guess the black market is making a comeback now!!

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

The constitutional protections for cultivation by caregivers and patients are NOT the black market.  

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

The LIES and PROPAGANDA of the Big $$ Dispensary Lobby claims otherwise ...

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

"The voters HAVE the RIGHT to BAN "centers" as they are statutory. "

Exactly !!

Amendment 20 did NOT authorize Retail Dispensaries nor large scale Commercial Grows.

Amendment 20 DID authorize Patients and Private Individual Caregivers to grow their own.

Nope
Nope

 You voted against amendment 20.  You voted to deny sick people access to medical marijuana.  Be gone prohibitionist chippi!

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

You're the hypocritical douche-nozzle who wants to deny teenagers and children access to the magical benefits of marijuana, "a harmless plant which never killed anyone".

Why do you hate children ?

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Guest-  why do you hate science? 

Cannabis has NO KNOWN lethal dose for the last 10,000 recorded years.  It is possibly "the safest therapeutic substance known to man" quote DEA JUDGE Frances Young.

9 raw potatoes KILL.  1 gallon and 1/2 water consumed in 1 hour KILLS 50% of test subjects. 

Please find one substance that has NO KNOWN LETHAL DOSE. Please, if you want to argue HARM, give us 1 SAFER substance.........evidence your claim, anonymous person. 

Guest
Guest

Why do you hate the truth?

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

So it is your assertion that marijuana is NOT harmless, and in fact can be harmful.

So noted.

As a harmful substance, perhaps it should be intensively regulated and controlled by the government.

Guest
Guest

who are you quoting exactly, other than yourself? I don't see anyone calling it a harmless plant on here but you. Most sane people agree that outside of specific medical uses, any form of intoxicant used regularly by developing minds and bodies can be harmful.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

The Colorado Court of Appeals AGREE"S with Kathleen and ruled so on Aug 18, 2011 and THAT RULING IS THE CURRENT LAW OF THE LAND.   No one has the protections from A20 that they thought they had.  DA.

I voted NO on A20 BECAUSE I understood the language was so grey and could be interpreted in so many ways it would wind up costing thousands of people across the state their jobs, kids, freedom, insurance, gov aid and money to defend themselves.

And then then person who voted against it (me) ends up to be ONE of about 12 people statewide actively FIGHTING FOR PATIENTs rights many of you who voted for it, thought you had and PAYING tens of thousands out of my pocket and the pockets of at least 100 patients and caregivers,   Who is NOT the sore loser and who can see past the mistake of the majority of the voters, when they voted?  Kathleen.  Who agrees with her--the second highest court in the state. 

And again with you trolls paid to try to deter me from posting---it is obvious to everyone that you never debate a thing I say.  You just make fruitless attempts to, what, have people hate on me in the blogs like you?  And that gets you what?  Does it get you patient rights clarified? 

Where is your attack on MMIG for ignoring your patient rights?  oh, your with MMIG........... I understand. 

MMJCarder
MMJCarder

Would someone using prescription meds from a pharmacy lose these rights too?  All MMJ patients should have the same rights and punishments as are applied to any other medicinal treatments!!  If you misuse them, sell them, etc. then results should be the same for all. 

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

Except if that Constitutional Amendment -- or statute -- is an "affirmative defense" to existing criminal laws -- then the scope of the exemption is defined strictly and narrowly.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

As I agree with you most of the time and appreciate your comments/questions. 

If we overturn Beinor and clarify our fundamental rights--- Your welcome to stop by in Ned to celebrate. 

Monkey
Monkey

Damn, crazy story, thanks for sharing. I'm a fan Chippi, I agree with you most the time. I don't know anyone I agree with all the time on everything.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

and when I ask what you are arguing I am not implying "fighting"

argue:  to put forth reasons for or against, to debate.  To give evidence of, to prove in reasoning. to persuade or influence.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

I want no special treatment and here is an example:Nedicate started illegal (by zoning) grows in residential apts in the "central business district" in Ned.  It is zoned retail/service/food and residential only--and the area in question is 1 and 1/2 streets in downtown Ned. 

People in town where already 50/50 on the fact that pot was all over Ned.  Some hated it.  I have always believed the way to change peoples minds is to educate them but not throw it in their face.  These grows were in everyone's face and nose and why was zoning being ignored for a supposedly state compliant MMC?  (Additional grows for MMC's are not allowed to be in residents and these are in second floor apartments).  The building got approved about 4-5 years ago to be built because they were adding resident living above--there are allot of people who have been here 30-50 years who do not want growth at all.  That building was more palatable to these people BECAUSE of the apartments. 

The grow was reported by a person who lived in the apartment building who was afraid of a raid or robbery affecting her because the first three apts where grows at a planning and zoning meeting.  The zoning committee, once Nedicate manager confirmed it was their grows, said to file a complaint with the city and all three would be shut down immediately.  What happened?  For the first time in 20 plus years I have lived here, central business district zoning was changed to ALLOW INDUSTRIAL pot gardens in about 10 days time. 

Now, in Ned, you can rent any of the retail storefronts in our 1 and 1/2 street downtown, "sell" broken glass or anything as a 'front'  out of 10% of the store (not kidding) and be growing large amounts of cannabis in the other 90%. 

Well, how do you think the anti or non pot people feel about this?  They think the pro pot people suck BECAUSE pot won the "special right" to take over the whole business district.  They hate pot MORE.  And what is more insane is one cannot do the same thing (10% front/90% grow) to grow roses, or orchids or herbs or any other indoor gardening--ONLY POT.  This is wrong.  This is special treatment.  I want EQUAL treatment.  If your garden is an industrial grow--do it in industrial or agriculture zones--NOT ILLEGALLY in the DOWNTOWN.  And the old timers who live up here wonder HOW this zoning was changed and why. 

I had to write a letter to the paper apologizing to the true locals (who did not move to Ned in the last 2-3 years just to sell pot or grow pot or whatever with pot.) because this special treatment hurt our reputations as pot activists.  Half the town does NOT want to be referred to as the "pot town". Many people are PISSED over the special treatment.

And then Nedicate hate on me because I agree that --NO ONE else can have any other industrial grow in our central business district, so why can an MMC--especially if the state does not allow residential "business" grows for their storefronts?  WTF? 

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Why am I appealing Beinor? I realize I have to take the language the voters passed and fight for as much as we can get out of it. 

"Each of the United States has its own governing constitution. State

constitutions cannot reduce legal protections afforded by the federal

charter, but they can provide additional protections. California v. Ramos,

463 U.S. 992, 1014, 103 S.Ct. 3446, 77 l.Ed.2d 1171 (1983). Even where

the text of a state constitution matches verbatim that of the federal

constitution, the state document may be held to provide more to the

citizen. State constitutional rights can also include those entirely

unaddressed in the federal constitution, such as the right to adequate

education or the right to affordable housing."

AND medical marijuana..

If the supreme court overturns Beinor what does that mean?   Beinor was decided in a 2-1 ruling as we have one judge who did NOT agree with the other two and agrees with everyone who thought mmj use was LEGAL in CO that LEGAL USE is implied--and it is nonsense that we would have only decrimed possession.  He feels it is a fundamental right that is only limited by if you qualify as a patient or not.  His dissent in the ruling is another reason the Supreme Court should hear the case.  And his dissent argues everything in my supreme court petition last year and my district filing in Denver. 

And because John Suthers cross petition on cert in Beinor, where he points out that the Supreme Court should hear the case because no one showed up to argue on behalf of Beinor, including Beinor, in the appeals court ruling.  OUR arguments over fundamental rights have never been argued in the court of law.  We were a no show--and it's not Beinors fault or anyone's.  He did not appeal the ruling against his qualifying for  un employment because he had already found a new job.  The employer appealed and Beinor had no idea this ruling would have such an impact statewide. 

And this is not me exaggerating how the Beinor ruling affects everyone, it's in Suthers cross petition.  He sites dozens of court cases that affect so many different aspects of our lives individually and communally.

     I’ve conducted a cursory review of these Colorado laws and have set forth below a list of occupations, licenses, permits, certifications, benefits, rights, etc. that are compromised by the possession or use of a controlled substance, which includes at this point marijuanaeven if used pursuant to the Medical Marijuana provisions of the Colorado Constitution.  Andrew Reid  "Accordingly, not only may unemployment benefits be denied as in theBeinor case, the license to be an accountant, barber, cosmetologist, boxer, pharmacist, engineer, architect, veterinarian, coach (athletic trainer), taxi driver, dentist, mental health professional, doctor, lawyer, and even a plumber or outfitter could potentially be denied or revoked for those that lawfully use marijuana under their physician’s recommendation as medicine for debilitating medical conditions.  Additionally, other benefits and rights are impacted, including the rights of primary school students who are MMJ patients to attend school, qualification for student loans, eligibility for welfare and employment assistance, and parole and probation.

As long as the Colorado courts fail to recognize the Constitutional right to use medical marijuana, each of these place the 125,000+ qualifying MMJ patients in the position of having to CHOOSE BETWEEN THE PATIENT’S HEALTH AND THE PATIENT’S EMPLOYMENT, OCCUPATION, EDUCATION, RIGHTS AND BENEFITS.  Once the Constitutional right to the medication is secured – the purpose of the current petition to the Colorado Supreme Court in the Beinor case – virtually all of these other restrictions should fall as well since they would then infringe upon a Constitutional right.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

And I answered those questions knowing that all your talk about "patients waiving their rights" does not make sense ---  because they have NO RIGHTS to waive.  The Beinor ruling came down over the USE of ILLEGAL drugs under state law--(the feds and federal law were not mentioned).  The court ruled he could be fired and refused un employment because he was fired over ILLEGAL drug use. 

Mr Beinor and most patients thought the red card made their MMJ use LEGAL.  For the last 12 years almost every piece of MEDIA (paper or video), and in almost every court almost every judge, lawyer, cop (even those testifying against pot in the capitol) and politician--when speaking ON RECORD about MMJ in Colorado, say almost the same thing:

"In 2000, voters in Colorado legalized medical marijuana."  or something like it like "Medical marijuana was legalized in Colorado in 2000, so we, the general assembly, need to regulate........."

Can you find ONE reference to any of them --nationwide---saying "In 2000, voters in Colorado decriminalized possession of medical marijuana" ?

You can look, but good luck.  The majority of Coloradans and people across the country and the world think "Colorado legalized medical marijuana"  NOT "Colorado decriminalized possession of medical marijuana."

You yourself, in your clarification to me just said "patients can waive their right" so you also do not understand.  If mmj is "LEGAL" in Colorado, patients do have rights, because it is a constitutional amendment. 

Is everyone an idiot for thinking this?  NO.  Because constitutional amendments are always interpreted in the most broad sense in FAVOR of the citizens.

And since I understand that constitutional amendments are ALWAYS interpreted for the most benefit of the citizen or broadly and not the most restraining,

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"The Colorado Court of Appeals agrees with Monkeys interpretation of A20, Kathleen seems to be the one who misinterpreted."

Wrong and I will explain in a second post. 

"I think employers should have medical marijuana policies, but not be forced to. If you sign an employment contract that includes drug testing, you should ask what their policy is on MMJ before you sign it."

I have never asked employers be forced into anything or patients be forced into anything.  And if employers have a mmj policy, it would be in the contract.  And I have never said or implied anyone should ignore ANY contract they have signed.  And I have never advised anyone to waive their RIGHTS, employee's or anyone else.

"do you think your right to cannabis (that you didn't vote for) should take away the rights of others? (meaning employers)"

NO and I have never implied it. 

"Many people waive their rights for privileges, (such as employment)  are you saying people should not be allowed to waive their rights when using cannabis..."

NO and I have never implied it.

"or the rights of cannabis users should outweigh everything and everyone?"

NO and I have NEVER implied it. 

As a matter of fact I have always stood with the mantra that cannabis should be treated EQUAL to everything else that is non lethal.  And as an activists for cannabis specifically I NEVER ask for special treatment for it or anyone who uses it.  Special treatment does NOT win the hearts of minds of people who are against cannabis.   EQUAL, FAIR treatment is what I propose.

Nope
Nope

chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives.  chippi:  you vote the same as prohibitionists vote on marijuana initiatives. 

this is what drives me nuts!!!!

Nope
Nope

YAWN!  get a life people

Nope
Nope

 i'm sure people made the same argument when alcohol prohibition ended.  fact is that I30 would give people more rights than they have now and would end several, but not all, aspects of marijuana prohibition.  do you think alcohol prohibition still exists?  after all, it is illegal to distill alcohol in the usa without a license.  you really think that I30 is such trash that it can't be amended over the years to continually expand on marijuana freedoms?  i don't understand how you fail to see any benefit to I30 and A20 for that matter.  A20 has been a great thing for many patients including myself.  marijuana provides me daily pain relief and i am grateful that i have legal access to it.  i remember when i had to break the law to use marijuana over narcotics and i'm glad that i don't have to do that anymore.

Matt in Boulder
Matt in Boulder

And maybe you didn't pay attention in the 1990's when pot was still completely illegal but we did NOT have POT COPS--cops whose sole responsibility is to police a plant and the people who chose to use it--the safest therapeutic substance known to man.

Thanks for the history lesson.  I didn't realize that the DEA and all local drug task forces are a new phenomena as of 2000.

Monkey
Monkey

 "I don't understand what your arguing here?"Not arguing, just stating my opinion and asking questions. Questions answered by another question. The Colorado Court of Appeals agrees with Monkeys interpretation of A20, Kathleen seems to be the one who misinterpreted. I think employers should have medical marijuana policies, but not be forced to. If you sign an employment contract that includes drug testing, you should ask what their policy is on MMJ before you sign it. No court took away any patients right to USE cannabis, it took away your misconception that patients can ignore contracts they sign waiving their rights. 

I'll restate the question again, what would you hope for in overturning the court decision?"do you think your right to cannabis (that you didn't vote for) should take away the rights of others? (meaning employers)  Many people waive their rights for privileges, (such as employment)  are you saying people should not be allowed to waive their rights when using cannabis, or the rights of cannabis users shouldoutweigh everything and everyone?"

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"I overlooked this part of your nonsense"

You have overlooked EVERY fact I have presented and have only continued your stoner prohibitionist personal attacks.  Weak.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

hahaha--surprising not.  but it is the only show where there will be no line at the woman's bathroom.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

You must be the singular female present at the last Rush concert !

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Thanks, Ross.  I hold my head high and stand behind everything I say. 

As always there are some great RUSH lyrics from Neil Peart that come to mind:

Force 10:Tough times demand tough talk

Demand tough hearts demand tough songs

Demand...

We can rise and fall like empires

Flow in and out like the tide

Be vain and smart, humble and dumb

We can hit and miss like pride

Just like pride

We can circle around like hurricanes

Dance and dream like lovers

Attack the day like birds of prey

Or scavengers under cover

Look in -- to the eye of the storm

Look out -- for the force without form

Look around -- at the sight and the sound

Look in look out look around...

Or Mission:Hold your fire

Keep it burning bright

Hold the flame 'til the dream ignites

A spirit with a vision is a dream

With a mission.....

...Spirits fly on dangerous missions

Imaginations on fire

Focused high on soaring ambitions

Consumed in a single desire....

...We each pay a fabulous price

For our visions of paradise

But a spirit with a vision is a dream

With a mission

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" -- George aWol Bush

Rosskarr
Rosskarr

Don't let trash talkers like nope who are cowards talking behind an anonymous identity. He's probably a snitch patient who doesn't even have a real medical necessity to posess red card and just wants to use it because he's a recreational cannabis user and most likely a drug abused. Anyone who would troll trash talk like that about your activism deserves the worst. Can't wait for karma to come back n bite that coward in the ass. Nope is one piece of garbage someone forgot to take out with the trash. Expose yourself you coward!! You wouldn't last one second on the streets of NY. You'd be dumped in the Hudson River with the rest of the scum.

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"......yet voted against my right to medical marijuana and I will never forget that."

Please don't forget it--but get it straight---. 

A20 currently provides NO RIGHTS for ANYONE. 

Unless Beinor is overturned---A20 NEVER provided ANYONE the RIGHT to USE mmj.

Please look up the Beinor-V-ICAO ruling and read it so you can UNDERSTAND--The courts have RULED you nor ANYONE has a RIGHT to medical marijuana use. 

I'm the idiot fighting for your presumed/assumed/hopeful "rights" in the highest court in Colorado.  Your the person spending your time trolling against patients rights.  You are the prohibitionist. 

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

  So where is proof I have made ANY personal attacks (like what you do to me) on any of the people you mentioned.  I ONLY CARE ABOUT BAD LAWS, BAD LANGUAGE.  Saying these people support or wrote any of the BAD LAWS is NOT a personal attack. 

"Figure you deserve some trolling in return. Not much fun is it?" 

hahahaha......Does it seem like I'm upset or deterred over an anonymous poster?  Oh.... I see..... you have to make yourself feel like your actually accomplishing anything so you want to believe you have tarnished my day or my ego or???  yeah, just what have you accomplished?

oh....I know!....you have given me a wonderful opportunity to educate the general public over and over again.  Thanks!

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

When you spend a year telling voters you are "legalizing" or "ending prohibition"  "regulating like alcohol" you mislead the general public.  The proponents admitted that it WOULD BE MISLEADING in the title board hearings. THOUSANDS of people will believe you when in fact, just like with mmj not being legal currently with the Beinor ruling, you SET UP thousands of Coloradans to put themselves (un knowingly) at risk of every loss below:

1. KIDS 2. HOUSE 3. JOB 4. FREEDOM5. STUDENT LOANS 6. GOV. ASSISTANCE7. INSURANCE

and YES, you can lose all of those things right now with MMJ. Fortunately the HARM is limited to patients who were trying taking the extra OPTIONAL step in being protected by registering for a red card. (130,000 max affected) 

If I30 passes, it will affect the entire population of Colorado over 21 years of age, so probably millions.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

When will deluded stoners like you realize that the Big $$ Dispensary Lobby is NOT "pro-marijuana" ??

... they are PRO $$ and PRO REGULATIONS that FORCE patients to only be allowed to purchase from them, while restricting or eliminating the rights of Patients and their Private Caregivers to grow and supply their own medicine.

No see!
No see!

Not paranoia just common sense. I've stood back and watched you troll people like betty, brian, and mason for years and i'm fed up with you trashing pro marijuana efforts. Figure you deserve some trolling in return. Not much fun is it? I support PCRLP but now you demand my identity when I disagree with you on i30 and your vote against a20? Glad you don't manage the medical marijuana registry. You clearly don't respect privacy. Unlike you, I will continue to support all pro marijuana efforts regardless of personal differences including your efforts. I will not however refrain from trolling your destructive comments. You're way past due for some good trolling. Wear your A20 scarlet letters so everyone knows you voted against A20, against my constitutional right to marijuana. You claim to be a marijuana advocate yet voted against my right to medical marijuana and I will never forget that.

Nope
Nope

We would be more free under i30 than we are now. Name one existing right that i30 would take away from people?

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

"Why do you think your right to cannabis (that you didn't vote for) should take away the rights of others? Many people waive their rights for privileges, are you saying people should not be allowed to waive their rights when using cannabis, or the rights of cannabis users should outweigh everything and everyone?"

Monkey, I don't understand what your arguing here? 

"A20 doesn't protect people the way you think it should but it protects people the way I thought it would when I voted for it"

I voted no because I knew it wouldn't protect people. But I am NOT a sore loser---when the majority voted for this because the majority, unlike you, did believe their qualifing USE would not harm them or their family--you know the spirit of the law. 

And since I understand that constitutional amendments are ALWAYS interpreted for the most benefit of the citizen or broadly and not the most restraining, I realize I have to take the language the voters passed and fight for as much as we can get out of it. 

"Each of the United States has its own governing constitution. State constitutions cannot reduce legal protections afforded by the federal charter, but they can provide additional protections. California v. Ramos, 463 U.S. 992, 1014, 103 S.Ct. 3446, 77 l.Ed.2d 1171 (1983). Even where the text of a state constitution matches verbatim that of the federal constitution, the state document may be held to provide more to the citizen. State constitutional rights can also include those entirely unaddressed in the federal constitution, such as the right to adequate education or the right to affordable housing."

AND medical marijuana..

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

and you are afraid to post your name when you liable me......is that your paranoia?

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Just like your psy 100 "projection" that I am a prohibitionists and it's really you......as I believe I have said to you before--the only people who experience paranoia are people who do not understand the laws.  I understand the laws and I sleep well, Thank you.  But maybe we should be worried about you...ya know....suffering over paranoia (through projection to myself) because you clearly do not understand law. 

Kathleen Chippi
Kathleen Chippi

Anonymous NOPE-- -Your hate for me must be clouding your thought process.  Cannabis is in a world of it's own yet affects peoples lives from every angle.  Pay better attention.  Anonymous Guest from the blog a week ago sounds familiar--"Initiative 30 expands liberties just as Amendment 20 did.  By voting against laws that would expand my liberties as a citizen in colorado you are contributing to prohibition!  Wake up chippi, you vote the same on marijuana laws as john suthers, john walsh, and every other marijuana prohibitionist in the state.

I wonder if the gay rights movement has morons like chippi that advocate against civil unions because the proposed expansion of liberties isn't enough?  Vote no on civil unions!  If I can't have marriage I'd rather have nothing!  -- this kind of stance makes little sense.  do you understand chippi?"

Let me answer your expansion of liberties comments:

NO ONE goes to JAIL or PEE's in a CUP if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their KIDS if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their HOUSE if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their DRIVERS LICENSE if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their JOB if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their FREEDOM if civil unions or marriage are legalizedNO ONE loses their STUDENT LOANS if civil unions or marriage are legalized

Do you understand, anonymous nope?  If you vote for I30 you are voting FOR these prohibitions to rain on so many different people's lives it's insane.  I30 does NOT LEGALIZE marijuana.  And the proponents misleading people, apparently like you, to think it does is going COMPOUND into a crises in our courts and peoples lives.  Anyone who wants to smoke pot in Colorado ALREADY DOES.  I am sick of you people implying that until MMJ there was no medical marijuana or recreational marijuana.  NO adult who wants EVER had a problem getting it.

And maybe you didn't pay attention in the 1990's when pot was still completely illegal but we did NOT have POT COPS--cops whose sole responsibility is to police a plant and the people who chose to use it--the safest therapeutic substance known to man. 

The history shows that with MMJ--when the people perceived it to be LEGAL--is WHEN WE HIRED POT COPS.  Isn't that messed up?  It's legal so instead of having law enforcement spend more valuable time tracking down sex offenders and violent offenders, why do we now have an entirely NEW ARM OF LAW ENFORCEMENT that has more money than the entire CBI regulating and enforcing more stringently than plutonium at Rocky Flats? 

Quote you anonymous guest--"Initiative 30 expands liberties just as Amendment 20 did." as you say A20 and I30 would do the same thing.  The Beinor ruling has already gone against patient rights and the CDPHE confidential registry has been breached and the red card protects patients from what?  And A20 brought confusion and harm to voters listed above....... Hmmmm.... so it looks like YOU are actually the stoner for prohibition!

Nope
Nope

coloradans would have more liberties with I30 than without and you can't deny that no matter how you want to twist things

Monkey
Monkey

You have the right to firearms. You don't have the right to buy firearms or bring them to work. You don't have the right to use them wherever you want and you can't have them accessible to children. If you misuse your right to firearms you loose your right to firearms and your job, kids freedom, insurance, driving and gov aid. Why do you think your right to cannabis (that you didn't vote for) should take away the rights of others? Many people waive their rights for privileges, are you saying people should not be allowed to waive their rights when using cannabis, or the rights of cannabis users should outweigh everything and everyone? A20 doesn't protect people the way you think it should but it protects people the way I thought it would when I voted for it, It allows you to use weed, not keep a job or collect unemployment. After your fired without benefits and loose your insurance, guess what, you still have the right to cannabis.

Donkey Hotay
Donkey Hotay

I30 is a RESTRICTION on the liberties of individual pot users you stump-stupid stammering simpleton.

Why are you such an ignorant tool for the greedy Big $$ Dispensary Lobby ?

Nope
Nope

 I overlooked this part of your nonsense -- "paid to try to deter me from posting" -- lol.  I have as much affiliation with MMIG, safer, sensible co, as I do with PCRLP.  I am just a medical marijuana patient that supports all pro marijuana agendas.  You are soooo paranoid chippi. 

Nope
Nope

I'm always up for expanding liberties which is what amendment 20 did and is what I30 will do.  I am against any laws that infringe on someone's existing liberties and that includes HB1284 because of some of the language.  I attack MMIG when necessary and when warranted but I also attack prohibitionists like you that vote against expansion of liberties because they are expansive enough.  You voted with the prohibitionists and voted against Amendment 20 to deny sick people access to medical marijuana.  You voted to deny an expansion of liberties to american citizens.  You suck chippi!

Now Trending

Denver Concert Tickets

From the Vault

 

Loading...