Photos: Dre, pit bull threatened with death, returns home after plea deal

Aaron Robert Matteson

dre still has love for the streets

Steph Kleeman

Absolutely absurd! He didn't bite or threaten anyone. Breed discrimination at its best. They should be ashamed of themselves

JackSpratt

I think what needs to be done is to have a nation wide ban on sales of pit bulls then require that all existing pit bulls be spayed and neutered so the breed will quit reproducing. Pit bulls are a human created problem and only humans can solve the problem. Humans have unnaturally selected for fighting, originally bull-baiting - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-baiting - and now fighting is programmed in their dna. They are good at fighting because that's what they were originally bred to do. If you put a herding dog that doesn't know how to herd and that's never seen sheep in with a bunch of sheep they'll do what comes naturally and herd. A pit bull is no different. A sweet kind pit bull in the wrong situation and instincts can take over. Stop perpetuating this breed! But I guess I'm one of those crazy dog lovers that can see the bigger picture. I love dogs so much that I also think that there should be a nation wide requirement to spay and neuter all pets unless a breeders license is purchased for each dog with reproductive organs. Dogs in animal shelters are euthanized every day and the blame is on people that claim to be dog lovers but are too stupid to fix their pets. Charge these morons costly annual breeder licenses and put the cost and guilt of murdering innocent puppies on these fools. It would work because these so called dog lovers that won't fix their pet really only care about the money.

mom2cairns

@JackSpratt you are absolutely correct.... and a possible solution... now sit back and expect the personal ad hominem attacks.... intelligence is something that scares the heck out of the PB supporters.

jenbrighton

1 Like

@mom2cairns @JackSpratt Mom2Cairns, you are really digging yourself a hole with assertions like "intelligence is something that scares the heck out of the PB supporters." If you are so intelligent, you'd know statements like that are ridiculous and unfounded. There are many brilliant people who own, love and support pit bulls.

You mentioned my "argumentation" abillity earlier. In short, it means the process of reasoning methodically. You seem to lack that ability by tossing out insults and deflecting with your rhetoric rather than hard-based facts. Again, you make me laugh by saying "...now sit back and expect the personal ad hominem attacks..." and then making the statement about intelligence. You are your own worst enemy.

As to Cairn terriers, here's a quote directly from cairnterriers.org: "No two Cairns are truly alike; each has distinct personality and character differences." Gee, maybe that applies to all breeds of dogs, eh, just like we pit bull owners have been saying.

jenbrighton

@mom2cairns And I guess boxer mixes should be on the hit list too. In fact, in my area two purebred boxers escaped their yard and attacked someone waiting at a bus stop, doing severe damage to that person.

http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/hemet/hemet-headlines-index/20120920-udpate-hemet-dog-bite-victim-recovering-boxer-quarantined.ece

jenbrighton

@mom2cairns Oh, but wait, another attack by a different Lab mix.

http://www.ksat.com/news/Dog-attacks-policeman-at-Hardberger-Park/-/478452/16671290/-/d0q60y/-/index.html

jenbrighton

@mom2cairns So how does your vendetta against pit bulls save this poor child? I suppose you'll say it wasn't a Lab mix, but a pit bull. If people are irresponsible with their dogs, this is what happens.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Dog-Attacks-Toddler-at-Park--170389706.html

jenbrighton

@mom2cairns And again you deflect and refuse to address any of the sites I have provided, including numerous cites of the fact pit bulls bite no more than other breeds of dog. These medical professionals you say back you up--if canine professionals can't even pick a pit bull out of a lineup, how in the world does a medical professional know what sort of dog did the damage? As we know, without papers, no one knows what a shelter dog is comprised of. And DNA is not 100% accurate at this point. so those statistics are not. There is no way to track dog bites in the US or the world for that matter. Until there is, it's all conjecture and personal opinion. Just because someone says it's a pit bull type dog doesn't make it so.

The answer to changing the pit bull's image is responsible ownership. Somehow it's the dogs' fault if gangs and thugs choose to use them for nefarious purposes? And you previously picked on my logic skills? How about addressing the reasons behind kids that join gangs? Whether its dogs, guns, knives, drugs or baseball bats, the underlying reason behind gangs is not the dogs -- it's acceptance, it's power over those they deem less able to defend themselves, and in my opinion it's a lack of parents or parenting. If they don't use bull type dogs, they'll choose another large breed. In fact they are. I've seen many more Cane Corso type dogs in my city with questionable owners. So are we going to annihilate that breed next?

You seem to think there is something different about pit bulls and that's where you get hung up. A pit bull is no different than any other large breed of dog, including mastiffs, great Danes, GSDs and Labrador retrievers. If those dogs are not handled responsibly, they may do extreme damage if they bite or attack. Many dogs are game bred for athleticism and spirit. You have a terrier, don't you? Rhodesian Ridgebacks can climb fences, as can many other types of dogs.

Take a look at the Stubby Dog website If you'd like to know about the thousands of good dog owners. And to answer your question, NO, I WOULD NEVER GIVE UP MY TWO DOGS. Why should I? I've put my heart and soul into my dogs and they are loved by everyone they meet. They go into dog friendly stores, they go to restaurants, they do therapy work, they go to dog daycare, we do agility & nose work, they hike with me, they snuggle with me, they love children, they love homeless people, they have gone on pretty much every vacation we've taken and stayed at dog friendly B&Bs, hotels, motels, etc. A BIT FAT NOOOOOOO. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever been asked. When I adopted my female dog at 10 weeks old from the shelter, she was a cute puppy. It's people like you that have made me such a strong advocate for pit bulls/any dog (and who knows, maybe mine don't even have pit bull in them). In the early 80s, before I even liked dogs, 3 roommates had pit bulls. No one thought a thing about it. The dog that bit people? My other roommate's German shepherd. The pit bulls greeted everyone with a lick and wagging tail. The shepherd bit everyone that came through the door. She eventually had to be rehomed in the country after she bit the mail carrier.

mom2cairns

@jenbrighton It would be nice if you knew something of the histories of gangs in the US... what really opened my eyes to the underground history of PBs, which you refuse to acknowledge, is affiliated with criminal activities... and that element is growing and infiltrating into 'mainstream' America. The culture of making the aggressor the victim is a part of this. It was only touched on in the literature in criminology, but I suppose this could easily present a rich field for anthropologists and criminologists to explore.

Any dog that is bred and trained to pull 1000lbs and to run up wall (try looking on YouTube sometime at the braggarts who think it's great to breed this kinds of dog)... You and I both know that it take, even in the electronic age, about 9 years to get peer reviewed stuff... so maybe in my 70s it will appear.

What absolutely amazes me, is that you expect the public to blindly accept YOUR point of view when DAILY there are current news events where people, children and infants, handicapped, seniors... news reports on the nightly news.... and yes, there ARE articles coming out in the professional journals... now I just have to get over to the UNLV's medical school library to get a copy as it's not available for free on the internet. Plastic surgeons, dermatologists and general surgeons who have to do the repair work ARE writing and speaking out in public forums.

Again, I ask for you to bring forth some constructive alternatives to what the public is pressing for... BSL... which *I* don't think will work simply because of the large proportion of anti-social tendencies of PB owners.

Seriously, if it was proven to you by a preponderance of the evidence, would you be willing to give up your dog for the good and safety of your neighbors and community? Or if insisting on keeping your dog at the risk of damage to your community, would you then move to a place where you could adequately SECURE and keep your PBs?

YOU PB MAY well be well behaved, and sweet... and may live out it's life but it is a gamble that you won't have to face a victim of your insistence and pride to your own desires. I hope for all concerned it wouldn't happen.... but you do run a risk.

jenbrighton

@mom2cairns You sound like a follower of DBO. If so, that explains a lot about you. If not, I apologize because we all know DBO is one of the least objective sites out there.

You and I disagree in so many arenas, it's pointless to have further conversation. I note that when I list studies and names of individuals who are diametrically opposed to your statements (veterinarians, geneticists, certified dog behaviorists and trainers), you fail to even address that, instead continuing to talk about what you have done and stereotype PB owners.

Did you read the 48-pg study I posted? Did you look at any of the links I posted? Did you check out any of the canine professionals I listed? Would you like me to send you some more links? No, because you don't want to read something that proves you wrong. Again, I apologize if I am misinterpreting your actions, but your refusal to comment leads me to believe you either didn't care to read them because you are afraid of what you might learn or you read them and found you are mistaken in so many of your beliefs about pit bull type dogs and you don't want to be wrong.

You really lost me when you said pit bulls have been bred to kill. Shows how much you don't know. Please provide me with a solid, peer reviewed scientific study that proves pit bulls are killers. I would warrant you can't because it doesn't exist.

mom2cairns

@jenbrighton Yes, I read that Pom story... but that was ONE...and it made headlines because it was SUCH AN EXCEPTION!!! go count how many PBs have killed infants/toddlers, usually family members( and we;re not even mentioning the maulings and disfigurements).. how many PBs have attacked handicapped people.... even in recent weeks!!

YOUR worship at the idol of the PB is just irrational... and all the rest of the sane community is asking... be rational... look at the stats and the reports.... try using the 'google alerts' and you might have an eye opener... and hopefully a MIND-OPENER. I am well aware that there are some behaving well PBs... BUT almost every single attack on a family child has come as a surprise from 'sweet' PBs.... ANY PB can have that 'switch' come on. TRY to think of some way where the safety of the community can co-exist PB ownership....all I've (and others) have heard is a bunch of whining and sniveling.

Now: as to your stupid comment about my feeling uncomfortable around big dogs..(You really ought not to shoot off your mouth if you don't know what your talking about) I've been working with dogs and had them, trained them for 50 years. I only have smaller terriers now in retirement.... My Golden died in 2002. I helped a friend when I lived in upstate NY with her champion GSDs in the ring as well as training.... even back in the 70s her dogs/bitches went for $5K.... some to police departments if they chose to not go to Germany to buy them so I know Schutzhund. So, I am familiar with dogs who do have a bite reputation and I do know about the proper training for them. However, GSDs are trained to obedience above all and can be called off. If you read the PB attacks often it takes killing the PB to make the attack stop or at least shooting them by police and in a couple of cases, people have had knives to stop an attack.

I've fostered Irish Wolf hounds and lost my heart to them... if I could have any dog it would be that breed. I have raised, bred and trained GSPs, and my other heart dog was my Drathaar who was also a field champion... couldn't be shown because the vet docked his tail in the wrong spot and he turned out to be bigger than breed standard at 110 lbs.

All I'm trying to persuade you to do is to open your mind a bit to the reality that PBs were bred to kill.... some have overcome it but can still carry and pass on that genetic trait. Perhaps, one day, when we can really used genetic therapy to alter this trait, then they may be considered safe.

But I still question the personality traits of people who INSIST, even in the light of the ever-growing list of attacks still insist that their dog is MORE IMPORTANT than the peace and safety of their community and neighborhood. I've even read where some PB owners would give up their children rather than their dogs... there is a case that came to my attention that a father is not going to be able to have his children visit his home because his PB attacked the toddler... the judge gave the option to give up the dog and he wouldn't. What's with that?

jenbrighton

MOM2CAIRNS - Here's a study for you by the Australian Veterinary Association on the fallacy that breed bans have any impact on dog bites/attacks and its position on sensible solutions.

http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/AVA_website/pdfs/Dangerous%20dogs%20-%20a%20sensible%20solution%20FINAL.pdf

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the research contained in the 48-page report. You see, the difference between us is that I can provide scientific studies backing my position and I've yet to see you post links to studies supporting your position, other than anecdotes.

Another item you might want to read is this blog that talks about the fact people will believe anything they read on the Internet. In that same blog it sets out the many organizations that do not favor breed bans. It provides links to position statements of various organizations that oppose BSL:

http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2012/09/considering-the-source.html

jenbrighton

1 Like

@mom2cairns Don't you think the fact that you're having trouble finding studies to back up your position about what type of people own pit bulls is a red flag? Your comments indicate you do not understand dogs. Yes, certain dogs have killed people: a Pomeranian killed a baby and a Jack Russell terrier killed a baby. A Lab puppy killed a baby. Labs, boxers, huskys, GSDs, rotties, Presa Canarios, etc. have all killed. The reason? Bad ownership, period. BUT, no dog just goes off without a reason. Talk to any dog behaviorist who has worked with multiple dog breeds, large and small.

Check out Jim Crosby's blog; check out Dr. Sophia Yin's blog; check out Jean Donaldson's books; check out Dr. Ian Dunbar's Dog Star Daily blog (in fact, during an interview, Dr. Dunbar said one of the best dogs to work in a children's psychiatric hospital is a pit bull because they are so tolerant); check out Karen Pryor's blog; check out Dr. Patricia McConnell's blog; check out geneticist Kristopher Irizzary's comments on dog genetics; check out the CDC, AVMA, ABA, APBC and on and on. So you are saying you know more than these professionals? You will not find one of the above who says pit bulls are inherently dangerous or any more prone to "go off" than any other breed.

One of my dogs is a therapy dog working with adults with developmental disabilities, mental health issues, children at a local middle school, our local university, and is involved in a reading program for children. We can go back and forth all day about who does the most for society, but what it comes down to is simply that for some reason you don't like my chosen breed of dog, whereas I love and understand all breeds of dogs. Each one is an individual that's a product of genetics, training, love and affection, whether they live in the house or chained to a tree, whether they are fed and watered, how socialized they are, how much exercise they get, and whether they have untreated health problems. From your comments, it seems you are not comfortable around large dogs. And that is fine. That's your prerogerative. But quit stereotyping.

"Stereotypes are generalizations, or assumptions, that people make about the characteristics of ALL members of a group, based on an image (often wrong) about what people in that group are like." [Emphasis added.] (From the Univ. of Colorado, Conflict Research Consortium.)

Remind you of yourself?

mom2cairns

@jenbrighton @JackSpratt as yet, no Cairn Terrier has killed anyone.... much less sneaked in thru a doggy door to attack resident dogs... or are Cairn/ folks just more careful in how they care for and contain their dogs? could be. But just because YOUR dogs are 'good' for the moment, it doesn't mean they can't and won't 'go off' at any given time... since you're in a law office, or so you say, please start checking with liabiltiy laws...

I'm not working with dog laws but in retirement am working with child sex trafficking and what I'm noting is that many of the pimps and ring organizers have an affection for the PB type dog... not Cairn Terriers.

Still looking for a better article or research on the personality profiles of PB owners... they seem to have a continuum of anti-social, ME FIRST and the rest of the community be damned attitude... on a scale of 1-100...(the 90s+ would indicate criminal history) would love to be able to have the funds to to a decent assessment on the MMPI of them

michael.roberts moderator editortopcommenter

@JackSpratt Controversial post, Jack. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

StaffordOwner

1 Like

@michael.roberts @JackSpratt Have you even read the comments on here!? You think that is the most controversial post!?

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@StaffordOwner Roberts shares the mic , so to say . It's a good thing . HANDS DOWN , Chase , Hotay , Monkey , Who , & Scar , OWN these blogs . ! You add Roberts to the equation and there's my news crew !

Additionally , doesn't it feel nice when recognized ? That feeling does well being passed round like a joint . Any comment he reflects on gets immediately read thereafter .

I go off at the mouth way too often to maintain a shared recognized , respect that is associated with the above mentioned .

You are correct in your assessment .

Read on ..

It gets BETTER !

Kristy Kolb Hansen

1 Like

So happy for Dre and his family!

Juan_Leg topcommenter

I'm grateful for your inept and continuous coverage of this story . Do take notice of the responses you've generated concerning yet another example of how our government insists on overbearing control of EVERYTHING , in each of our daily lives !!!!!

I am rather surprised there aren't more backing the dog & his family ...

ShepherdGirl

2 Like

Dre is back home where he belongs. He is a cuddlebug that loves his family and they love him.

Dogs shouldn't be judged by their appearance or breed. Pit bulls used to be called nanny dogs because of their affection for children. I notice that the pit bull haters on this post are rude and insulting to people that disagree with them.

Queen Elizabeth's corgis attacked Beatrice's elderly dog and did serious damage. They nearly ripped its ear off!!! Does that mean all corgis are vicious and should be put down?

mom2cairns

@ShepherdGirl no... only that one ... at least segregated from any contact... but I think that dog is dead now anyway.

tkdyer

2 Like

It appears that a lot of commenters here are Colleen Lynn supporters and troll rather than believers of facts. Perhaps one is actually Colleen Lynn?

mom2cairns

@tkdyer actually there are more pro-PB trolls and virtually none of them know anything about the current breeding of this type of dog

ArtB

@mom2cairns Dre 1, mom2cairns 0.

baker1017 topcommenter

1 Like

I will be the judge for anyone that is not sure if it a pit bull type of dog no charge !!!

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@baker1017 <--------- ?.......

StaffordOwner

@baker1017 How do you define the term "pit bull type dog?" Is it any dog that you think looks like a "pit bull." That's how most define it. If that were the case you would probably consider my 14" tall 30lb English Staffordshire Bull Terrier a "pit bull type dog," as well.

baker1017 topcommenter

2 Like

When a 80lb pit bull type dog attacked My 3yr old Grand Daughter severely mauling Her face causing nerve and muscle damage that cannot be repaired.,It took 3 full grown Men and a steak knife to stop the dog from attacking. The pit did not stop until it was dead.The attack of a pit bull is not a simple bite.It took over 100 stitches to attempt closing the wound.The ER doctor said He has treated 5 severe dog bite wounds and all 5 where from a pit bull type dog.

michael.roberts moderator editortopcommenter

@baker1017 Wow. Sorry to hear about what happened to your granddaughter, Baker.

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@baker1017 My most sincere condolences to your granddaughter and to everyone who witnessed the horrible , violent attack .

People often kill w/o reason or prevarication , as well ....

TotalTruth

2 Like

@baker1017

What a horrible story. Sorry that happened, but it's a perfect example of dogs mislabeled as "Pit Bulls". There's no such thing as an 80 lb "Pit Bull". Off all the breeds that are commonly called pit bulls (because its well over 20 different breeds labeled as 'pit bulls' by the uninformed), NONE of them are 80 lbs. Mastiffs, Cane Corsos, etc. are 80+ lbs and have a similar look to different bull terrier breeds, but they aren't related in any way. Unfortunately, even when presented with the fact that 8 or 10 cases didn't really an involve a "pit bull", victims and the media alike will still recount the tragedy has a 'pit bull' attack.

mom2cairns

@TotalTruth @baker1017 While the purebred individual dogs of ancient breeds are, indeed, different.... and frankly, MOST shelters have NO clue as to looking at what breeds are by visual inspection... and often they are so far wrong. My current rescue was listed as a 'Norfolk Terrier' but at 25 lbs, she is nowhere near being a 'Norrie'... and when I go to check dogs, I would see about 60-70 percent of them totally mislisted as to their 'breed'. Most of the breeds you listed above are ancient and considered as 'rare breed'... and a rare breed for good reason in that they do not do well as a family pet and their originally purpose was to be guard dogs but not ones who live in close proximity with other dogs and people. If you are interested, of all the 'breed' books, the one I like best (it's size and concise descriptions as well as temperament ratings make it very handy) is the SIMON & SCHUSTER'S GUIDE TO DOGS.

blueandsneakers

@TotalTruth @baker1017 you might google "monster pit bulls" and see how many breeders are turning out huge pit bulls. Please e-mail them your concerns that their dogs are not pit bulls and let us know what kind of response you get.

StaffordOwner

2 Like

@blueandsneakers @TotalTruth @baker1017 Unethical breeders exist in every popular breed. These breeders mix in other breeds and claim their dogs are pure bred. If you look at the "American Bully" (sometimes called "Monster Pit Bulls" "Extreme Pit Bulls" etc.) you will see 80-120lb dogs that have clearly been mixed with Mastiffs, Bulldogs and other large breeds. You'll see that most are "blue" in color, many have bowed legs, many are over weight and most are sold for thousands of dollars. These breeders do not breed for soundness of temperament or health of dogs, they breed for money, color, size and an "extreme" appearance. These dogs are not Pit Bulls, they are mixed breed dogs that have been poorly bred.

csunbean

1 Like

@baker1017Google Walk for Victims of Pitbulls.. or search on Facebook. Very sorry about what happened to your precious granddaugter. I am glad you are educating people in the truth: Pitbull attack is not the same as a dog bire.

mom2cairns

1 Like

@csunbean @baker1017 That still fails to recognize that while a PB type of dog can appear non aggressive at a time period, it does not account for that it has a more severe aggressive 'switch' that can, and too often does, explode at some later and unprovoked day.

StaffordOwner

1 Like

@baker1017 What an awful story and an awful situation. I can imagine that it must have been horrific for everyone involved. However, 80 lbs is well above the breed standard for the Pit Bull. Are you sure that it really was a Pit Bull that attacked your granddaughter? If so, was this dog from a reputable breeder, a rescue or a shelter or was it from a backyard breeder or accidental litter? I do not know of any reputable breeder who would breed an 80lb Pit Bull. It's more likely the dog(s) was a mix that resembled a Pit Bull. In any case, the dog did not have a proper temperament and should not have been in a home with children. If the dog had come through the shelter that I volunteer for showing any signs of aggression towards humans as that is an unacceptable trait in the Pit Bull breed.

mom2cairns

@StaffordOwner @baker1017 part of the problem is that the 'PB type' is so interbred that there is not all that much standard to judge by. You could definitely tell my GSPs or my Drathaar because they met the standards set down and were not mixed breed and I had their pedigreed back 10 generations..... you can't do that with a PB... only a Staffie or pure AmStaff

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg @StaffordOwner @baker1017

LOL

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@StaffordOwner @mom2cairns @baker1017 Or buy from a reputable breeder .

I paid $1,200.00 for Clyde .

My boy's show quality .

Nor is he 'fixed' , & I can only breed ,

per-approval .

Giambi's brother tried to buy him @ a Rockies .

He had a little too much to drink and it was all in fum nature but he was definitely serious .

I don't hide . If I go to Sam's Club or King Soopers & he's NOT w/ me , EVERYONE IN THE STORE asks if he's okay . And I do mean EVERYONE , if he's NOT w/ me .

I'm basically ANTI-SOCIAL w/ most . Not rude but I know how to

"Duck-Out", when cornered by a moron . You know, someone like 'ICEPRICK' .

StaffordOwner

@mom2cairns @baker1017 If you have a UKC APBT you can sometimes trace the pedigree back pretty far. The UKC APBTs look pretty much exactly like AmStaffs and there are a few that are dual registered as AmStaffs with the AKC and APBTs with the UKC. My friend's dog is one of them.

mom2cairns

1 Like

@StaffordOwner @baker1017 This is one of the reason that the AKC will not accept the so-called pit bull terriers... it is almost constantly being outbred with other bully types and the reason why a BSL won't work. The early PB types of dogs were smaller, 40-50 lbs but the current 'model', due to 'improvements' of continued interbreeding with dogs those who practice this find 'desirable' in the dogs they want. What you have is something of a multiple tier problem with the people who breed. There are comparatively innocent people who adopt dogs and do it all 'by the book', but there IS also a culture and some people who deliberately continue to breed for aggression, larger size, a more muscular dog and then train them to accentuate the aggressiveness and then breed only the most aggressive dogs and cull the less aggressive pups of the litters. Sadly many of these dogs an wind up in the general population.. a population that is not aware of the history of the dog's breeding, who are not strong (don't confuse this with abusive) owners and who think that 'love' is enough and that if a dog exhibits 'sweet' personality, it will always be that 'sweet' dog which, sadly, is too often far from the truth. When reading reports of pet dogs of this type who attack, the owners are invariably bewildered and amazed that their precious pup has behaved in this way. Then there is the 'machismo' appeal of a 'tuff' dog which ignores the possibility that the dog living with them has a 'time bomb' within the DNA of heritage deliberately put there by irresponsible and likely criminal intent.

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg why not look for a female Rottie... well, she might be 'smaller'... sort of..... hmmm can't think of a breed off the top of my head that would give you the same or even similar personality of the Rottie... they are unique.... what kind of coat do you prefer.... sounds like you prefer shorthaired breeds.... mellow and quiet... well, that sort excludes most terriers (definitely NOT a Russel... even I don't like those hyper... although I did babysit on last summer, Angel was pretty mellow... liked to sleep with me) Chinese cresteds are just tooo strange looking and you have to put sunscreen on them if you want to take them outside...

I guess you're stuck.... Rotties are just that.... Rotties and they are unique.... but I've been in love with each one I've met.... a friend of mine who lives where I do, used to breed them when she lived in California..

Wait... what about the Bull Terrier... like Patton's????? Ok they are funny looking.... but I have a friend in Texas who's girl just finished her championship and is out in CA looking for a hot date.

like Spuds McKenzie.... if you go to YouTube look for TOTO TALKIES... and look for MARGIE TALKS...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-f1Uco9qW4

and more info

www.youtube.com/watch?v=onquT6s3X-s

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@mom2cairns I'm not an idiot . Not , 'icepick' .

Clyde is the best of the five I have raised .

Clyde is the LAST and FINAL Rottie .

I'll adopt a smaller PIT mix . KIDDING !!!

I like mello & QUIET......

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg You're right... a well bred Rottie is a joy to behold...I rescued one we found (18 mo old) playing in traffic and we were able to get him into the truck... NO tags but a collar and not chipped (it was still new then) We were lucky in that one of my step-sons had a friend who had lost his two Rotties to cancer in a 6-week timespan. While we checked the fence, we came back in and the wife was on the kitchen floor and the'little' guy was in her arms and she in his... done deal. and yes, the drawback to larger dogs is their shorter life span... if I could, I would love to have an Irish Wolfhound... the ones I've met just take your heart out the door with them... if anyone ever came up with a 'miniature' version... I'd be there but perhaps Irish Terriers are sort of close or.... but the IW personality is totally unduplicated... BUT they only live 8-9 years ... and bigger dogs tend to have hind quarter difficulties which is so painful to watch/deal with..... which is why in retirement, I chose a small terrier types... if/when they get sick or hurt they are easier to get to the vet.... and when you accept the responsibility of the dog living with you, you have to think how you will care for them and sometimes that entails physicality....

StaffordOwner

@mom2cairns Please see my comment below about the "American Bully."

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@mom2cairns

What's the word on the doberman pinscher breed? Just as impredictable if not more , than the pit . I have read their brains outgrow their skulls causing MAJOR problems in their adult lives .

Rather than fuck around w/ questionable breeds , I'm on my 5th Rottie . Their ONLY draw back is a short longevity . I have handled divorce WAY better than I have the loss of my babies .

StaffordOwner

1 Like

@baker1017 The last sentence should have read, "If the dog had come through the shelter that I volunteer for showing any signs of aggression towards humans, it would have been euthanized as that is an unacceptable trait in the Pit Bull breed."

crisnboyz

1 Like

I have a pit/staffie mix and for those that cannot handle a dog is weak. It does not take much to stop a dog from biting or attacking. For crying out loud just stick your fist down its throat, or hold it down by laying on it. If this 140 lb person can hold down a 100 lb dog (which is a high side of weight) Most pitties are anywhere between 40-75 lbs. They come in all sizes and temperaments just like most dogs. The only problem is the media and overreaction of all this hoopla.

These breeds are NOT BRED for FIGHTING or hurting. They were always bred for their strength and intelligence. The are smart, funny, THEY SMILE, they are silly, loving, cuddle bugs. They want to please.

The PROBLEM are the owners who allow bad behavior to start and grow just like a child. Dogs of any breed NEED to be TAUGHT the GOOD stuff. BAD BEHAVIOR IS LEARNED NOT INNATE People.

Oh and one would die in a bathtub (about 350 a year) compare to a dog attack or death from a dog (about 50) AND NOT ALL ARE PIT BULLS.

Get your facts - It's not the breed! Its the other end of the leash..

mom2cairns

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@crisnboyz SORRY TO SAY BUT YOU ARE VERY VERY VERY WRONG AND MISGUIDED!!!! Statements like yours are the kind that lead communities to ban them. The reason people CHOOSE a breed is because it does have an INNATE temperament and disposition that appeals to them. Why do you think so many tests try to 'match' your personality with a canine personality? And why do you think a truly responsible private rescue organization will 'inspect' the potential adopting homes, will interview the potential adopters, check references. Sometimes we decide to NOT adopt to someone because the personality of the human doesn't mesh with the personality of the dog.,... and some dogs are so damaged by their past that they cannot be rehomed and some need to be sadly PTS. At this point in my life, I have smaller terriers simply because I no longer hunt and also live in an apartment so I need a dog that fits those demands, but I have had field dogs like GSPs and my favourite dog, Drathaars.... and my Drathaar was a field champion, mainly because of his breeding history. Yes, I had to train him to allow his natural talents to flourish but due to his breeding, it was almost 'too easy'. I don't show, don't look for conformation but what the dogs was BRED TO DO... and with terriers, they were bred to hunt vermin and my kids (with one exception) were champion earth dogs.... yes there is such a thing... it's an event that is listed as an AKC sanctioned activity and in order for dogs to participate in earth dog events, they have to have an AKC registration and be one of the breeds approved for this kind of activity. Before my cancer diagnosis, I considered having a business of 'green' vermin exterminators for organic growers who are opposed to using chemicals to get rid of their vermin pests.... but did do it for a few friends for fun. One ranch we took out 194 'kills' in a 4 hour period. But with my dogs, I could trace their breeding and often the lines they came from were noted for producing good vermin hunters. Just as the PB types we see now were bred for attack and not letting go. It is not just one 'end of the leash'. You have to have a reasonable breed and you have to use a leash appropriately as well. BOTH ends of the leash are important and you seem to be aware of only one end.

Juan_Leg topcommenter

" I'm so sorry " for saying this but you are quickly giving face to the 'C' word !

Juan_Leg topcommenter

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@mom2cairns <------ is NEVER wrong ! How DARE you imply otherwise .....

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg sometimes I'm wrong... my ex is living proof that I make mistakes

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg The dobie: your information is about 3+ decades old... (that's over 30 years in case you didn't know)... the dobie breeders have worked hard to reverse that narrow head just as the Irish Setters have for the past 45 years.... you don't see it now that the thug culture has dropped them as a 'tuff' status symbol.... try watching or going to a real AKC sanctioned show to see the results for yourself

blueandsneakers

@crisnboyz

The world record for pit bull weight pull is 10,000 pounds, on rails. Pits that can pull 7,500 are as common as dirt. you are going to restrain this dog HOW? Please read up on the history of your breed, to say that the breed was not created for dogfighting is a joke. The criteria for inclusion in the breed's gene pool was the ability and desire to attack unprovoked, and to continue that behavior until death occurs.

mom2cairns

@blueandsneakers @crisnboyz GREAT point... good for you... I'd forgotten that point... thanks for reminding me... and if you've seen the 'Perla' YouTube videos you will also get a view of other 'training' that would make them incompatible for living in a neighborhood, esp one with children and seniors who tend to have smaller dogs which are also viewd as prey by the PB types dog.

csunbean

@blueandsneakers @crisnboyz Very, Very good point.. I don't know of any family that has the ability to out pull a pitbull which means.. the familys cannot control them which means they are not suitable as pets.

StaffordOwner

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@blueandsneakers @crisnboyz I have studied this extensively. It is true that this breed was bred for bull baiting, ratting (killing rats in a pit) and dog fighting. As a result of this history, many Pit Bulls are aggressive towards dogs and other animals. There is a big difference between animal directed aggression and human directed aggression. My cat killed a mouse once, I don't now fear he will kill me. Pit Bulls and related breeds were bred for dog fighting. The way dog fights are organized is with at least two people in the pit with the dogs. The dogs are bred to be aggressive with the other dogs, but tolerant of the people in the pit with them. As a result of this history, well bred Pit Bulls are exceptionally friendly with humans. Most are also friendly with complete strangers. This makes them terrible guard dogs. Unfortunately, these days some breeders no longer breed for such temperaments, but rather for appearance or even, in the case of unethical breeders, for unsound temperaments. So, yes, there may be some "pit bulls" that are aggressive towards humans, but these dogs do not have proper temperaments and are not representative of the breed as a whole.

StaffordOwner

@mom2cairns @blueandsneakers @crisnboyz Thank you for acknowledging that American Staffordshire Terriers are great dogs. The AmStaff actually came from APBT stock, not the other way around. The AmStaff has been bred apart from the APBT for several decades, though, so some do consider them separate breeds. I think that the fact that many dogs are dual registered as APBTs with the UKC and AmStaffs with the AKC says that the breeds have more similarities than differences. My dog, however, is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, which is the smaller English cousin of the APBT/AmStaff. Some say they have less dog directed aggression than their American cousins, but I have met a couple of Staffords who don't like other dogs. Some say the same of the AmStaff, but, again, some do retain dog directed aggression. I have also met plenty of APBTs who are great with other dogs. I guess it depends, as you say, what lines they come from. I think you and I agree on that. Where we disagree is that I believe that most APBTs are also great dogs and the few that aren't are either poorly bred or poorly maintained/trained.

mom2cairns

@StaffordOwner @blueandsneakers @crisnboyz the sad sad thing is that these people who 'designed' the PB used the AmStaff as a foundation stock... but REAL and purebred Staffies ARE great and I am so sorry that they get =splashed' with the blame that solely belongs to the ABP or American Bull dog.... my friend who has a beautiful AmStaf which is from a line that didn't sell out to the PB folks and she keeps tabs on the pups and trying to adopt from this breeder, at least, you might get a dog if all you have is a parking ticket but if you have any other kind of a record, you don't get one of her puppies. and she does her best to reverse the perception that solely belongs to the ones who 'made' the APB...

blueandsneakers

@StaffordOwner @crisnboyz both of you need to brush up on the history of your breed. Manbiters were never culled unless they lost. If they made money in the pit they were part of the owner's yard and breeding program. Google Bullyson, Honeybunch, Bolio, all manbiters and highly regarded fighters. Stafford Owner, please explain to crisnboyz that pit bulls were indeed bred to fight, he is not getting the information from his sickly sweet dog blogs.

StaffordOwner

@crisnboyz You and I are in agreement, my response was to blueandsneakers.

crisnboyz

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@StaffordOwner That is what I was saying. There are the inbred and badly bred that MIGHT produce an aggressive bully but it is NOT it's Normally bred temperament. I am a "pit bull" advocate and am against BSL and the bad rap for the "few" bad pups out there that have killed a human.

crisnboyz

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@blueandsneakers LOL Yea okay, I can hold my dog down just by laying on him. They are not super human. AND NO they were NOT bred to attack - THEY WERE BRED FOR THEIR PREY DRIVE OF A TERRIER NOT FIGHTING - Get YOUR HISTORY RIGHT,

http://www.pitbulls.org/article/brief-history-american-pit-bull-terrierTable of Contents:

* Bulldog Beginnings -

* Pit Bulls and People -

* Coming to America

* Humans Squabble More than Dogs--Breed Organizations and Labeling

* The Pit Bull--American's Sweetheart

* The Killer Dog Myth -

By the 1980s, the companion history of the pit bull was forgotten, and the myth of the dangerous fighting dog took hold. It is uncertain exactly why this decade saw the pit bull suddenly rise to a new, less pleasant sort of fame, but many trace the entire trend to a single, ultra-sensationalistic Sports Illustrated cover article.

Whatever the reasons for the sudden infamy, the unwanted publicity not only caused problems for the vast majority of well-behaved pits, but actually encouraged unscrupulous individuals to deliberately purchase and breed pit bulls and similar looking dogs for nefarious purposes.

* Pit Bulls Today -

Fortunately, despite a few bad apples, most of the humans lucky enough to own pit bulls are responsible caretakers. With responsible owners and numerous groups devoted to promoting an accurate image of the breed, pit bulls are beginning to make a comeback in the popular imagination.

Even Sports Illustrated's most recent article on the breed was entirely positive, devoted to showing how nearly all of the supposedly "beyond rehabilitation" dogs from the Michael Vick case were now happy, friendly members of loving homes.

As the new century begins, the American Pit Bull Terrier is still a common participant in canine sporting activities, but now their wonderful drive and athleticism is exercised in more joyful activities than in centuries past.

Pit bulls routinely defeat all comers in weight pulling competitions, where they hold every world record in their own weight categories. They consistently distinguish themselves in agility and flyball, where their marvelous speed and coordination make them a joy to watch. And perhaps surprisingly to the uninitiated, they also excel in obedience trials.

And yes, they are still a working dog, but in a variety of new roles. Pit bulls make great therapy dogs and are commonly used in search and rescue. Following in the footsteps of Sgt. Stubby, they have also distinguished themselves in the role of drug and bomb sniffing dogs. A pit bull named Popsicle holds the Texas record for biggest drug bust, having sniffed out 3000 lbs of cocaine.

Most of all, the American Pit bull Terrier continues to be, as it has always been, a great family dog and beloved companion.

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@crisnboyz @mom2cairns

And I'm supposed to carry a card to 'legally' smoke marijuana . You know how cops act when they see Clyde , like the ass-munching, hypocrite , racists they truly are ......

crisnboyz

@Juan_Leg @mom2cairns Service dogs still require leashing. It doesn't matter how trained he is. The risk is not worth it no matter how well he is.

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@StaffordOwner @csunbean

Appreciate the advice which I followed w/ EVERY dog before my Clyde Monster . That's his handsome mug as my avatar . He won't leave my side . Even when eating , he finds a place under the table and lies down if room , which I see to beforehand %99 of the time .

Juan_Leg topcommenter

@mom2cairns

What part of service dog do you fail to understand ?

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg @StaffordOwner @csunbean PS... keeping your dog leashed IS THE LAW.... don't risk coming into conflict with that..OK?

mom2cairns

@Juan_Leg @StaffordOwner @csunbean

if I were you, I'd still keep him leashed on all occassions ... it keeps YOU and HIM safe from any possible accusation... there are all types of nutters around... not just the ones who own PBs...

Juan_Leg topcommenter

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@StaffordOwner @csunbean

My Rottie , Clyde , is a full service dog . He is most effective when barking & licking my face til I come out of a seizure . Though I spend about %80 of my time daily in a wheelchair , I do not use Clyde as my means for mobility . I am capable of bench pressing my weight more that 20 times and don't need that level of assistance from him . He simply walks beside me where EVER I go .

I can only imagine the scene mom2 would cause if ever our paths crossed , while Clyde & I are out running around for the day . It's happened at Coors Field a cpl of times and at the Lone Star Steak House once . Some lady going off oblivious , to the embarrassment she was causing her family as well as the other unknown dinner patrons . I was BEYOND pissed as was w/ EVERYONE aside from her as she LOUDLY ruined the night out for EVERYONE ! Final result , our orders were made to go & the restaurant's mgr comped our dinners and produced a good size bag of bones for Clyde .

Other than that , people have enough sense to come to the conclusion that if Clyde was dangerous , he wouldn't be walking next to me through King Soopers w/o a leash .....

mom2cairns

1 Like

@csunbean @crisnboyz @blueandsneakers csunbean... absolutely correct...

mom2cairns

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@crisnboyz @blueandsneakers WRONG!!!! Did you see the pictures of the man in Chicago who was killed by his own PBs... evidently not...and it was clearly his own PBs.... at least open your mind to the idea that they DO KILL and in more than twice the rate of their nearest competitor...

mom2cairns

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@crisnboyz @blueandsneakers as usual confused with the purebred AmSgtaf.... and being in flyball,agility or obedience trained doesn't guarantee a non aggressive dog. The reason I started to research this problem was from a newspaper report of an obedience trial 'winner' ripping off the family's 4 year old daughter's face.

Not everyone admires their athleticism.. frankly I prefer to watch an Afgan Hound on a lure course, or participating in earth dog events or watching agility trials but frankly the PB type dogs are not in AKC sanctioned trials (yes, I know there are other non-AKC events) because you have to be an AKC recognized breed to participate. Any other organization is for those who can't meet the stringent requirements of the AKC.

StaffordOwner

@csunbean Therapy Dogs are not the same as Service Dogs. A Therapy Dog is just a dog that is allowed to visit patients in hospitals, Assisted Living Facilities and other such places. In order for a dog to be a Service Dog the dog's owner/handler has to have a documented disability (a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity), the dog must be trained to perform a task or tasks that alleviate that disability and the dog must be kept on a leash and under the control of the handler at all times in public, must not show signs of aggression, must be kept quiet and clean. If not all of those are true, the dog's handler is breaking the law.

blueandsneakers

@crisnboyz

Jack Kelly wrote and published the Sporting Dog Journal from 1972 to 2001. The topic of the magazine was dogfighting, he was a dog fighter and went to prison for it. His associates were pit bull breeders and dog fighters. This is the history of the breed, like it or not. There is nothing "objective" about pitbulls.org. I have not quoted Dogsbite.org, you brought that up. Your final sentence makes no sense at all.

csunbean

@crisnboyz @blueandsneakers

Yep I have seen pitbulls with those cutsey banners downloaded from the net. Everyone knows there are big holes in the laws for ADA dogs and pitbull owners are misusing these laws to endanger more people and act like spoilt idiots using supposed therapy dogs and the chairs on buses and planes met for the truly disabled. Another show of sickeness and selfishness.

crisnboyz

2 Like

@blueandsneakers Son? okay whatever. And yours is not subjective ... Please. I have seen many Pit bull service dogs and I not care about Kris Crawford and whatever they did, that's on them.

So you would rather get your information from dogsbite instead - also subject.I prefer objectivity and ALL of the history, not just what others want you to believe because of "some" people killed by a dog AND yes it is no different than a killing by ANY dog - to include all the "other" breeds that don't make the news because of the prejudice involved in only processing the ones "thought" to be a pit bull type dog.

blueandsneakers

1 Like

@crisnboyzSon, this comes from a website called pitbulls.org. Is this what you consider a source of unbiased information? LOL. Try reading what the old dogmen had to say about the breed they created. Try reading Fifty Years with the American Pit Bull Terrier by Jack Kelly for factual information on the breed by those who created it. Google Pat Patrick, Joe Corvino, Maurice Carver, the Colbys, Floyd Boudreaux, they did not breed "companion" dogs. When you talk about SAR pit bulls, you are talking about the felon Kris Crawford. There is no actual recoprd of her dogs working the searches she claims and she has been banned from actual SAR work because of her legal status and her erratic behavior. You have chosen to cut-and-paste nonsense.