Marijuana: Michael Hancock rips Amendment 64, campaign responds (update)


We also asked for Hancock's take on arguments that regulation and enforcement are more effective when marijuana is legalized -- a common response to Amendment 64 critics like Governor John Hickenlooper, who say they are worried about a rise in underage smoking.

Michael Hancock, elections press conference.JPG
Sam Levin
Mayor Michael Hancock at an Obama press conference yesterday.
"You can argue that with a lot of the things that are illegal, right -- if you know that it's occurring and where it's occurring and where it's allowed. The realities are this: I think the cost to society with people who graduate from marijuana to harsher drugs is exponentially higher than any benefit that someone may try to calculate that you'll get from a...regulated marijuana industry,"he said. "I just find it very hard. Those of us who grew up where the advent and introduction of some of the harsher drugs, whether it's heroin, whether it was PCP, crack cocaine, we know a lot of our family members and neighbors started with recreational use of marijuana."

Hancock cited a recent Denver Post series on heroin use in Denver, in which Angel, the main subject, started smoking weed at age twelve, then moved on to cocaine, and eventually became addicted to heroin.

Another reporter asked about another argument of supporters -- that the measure will benefit Colorado children with $40 million in tax revenue put into school capital construction.

"It still requires another act of the state legislature to direct those funds if they materialize at all," Hancock said, repeating an argument of the amendment's opponents. "One of the things that you need to understand is, even in the medical marijuana industry, the revenues that were promised -- or at least speculated would occur -- have not materialized.... A lot of the dispensaries have gone out of business. A lot of folks have gone into it thinking it was going to be a windfall. It just simply has not materialized."

Continue to read the Amendment 64 response to Mayor Hancock's comments.

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766 comments
Jim B Bochenek
Jim B Bochenek

We need to educate society jeremy. That is the will of the universe.

Jeremy Kilbourne
Jeremy Kilbourne

As the owner of a care center that generates in taxes over three times what I personally get paid, I find this offensive. What would Mayor Hancock say to me? We have literally bent over backwards to be compliant with every draconian law and rule, have NEVER sold a single gram illegally. I work 80-100 hours a week to care for my patients. After almost 3 years of business we Have paid in license fees and taxes far more than we have made. Is the problem really cannabis here or anti-business practices? We employ 10 people. Would the mayor suggest they are not contributing to our economy? It's disappointing at best and flat out lies at worst.

Jay Jurgens
Jay Jurgens

Hey mr Tyler you don't know me so don't start w name calling

Dennis Scalf
Dennis Scalf

Lame! Get w/ the program people. It is 2012, let's get over what they believed in the 50s n 60s now

Philip Fick
Philip Fick

he probably doesnt want the hassle with the feds. cant blame him.

Fallene Wells
Fallene Wells

Close minded conservative people will never equal having positive growth in colorado. A gateway drug, really?

Jay Jurgens
Jay Jurgens

Hey Hancock this is NOT your city, you jackass your only an elected person to do what WE the people tell you WE want. WE as citizens vote to put you in the direction WE want you to go. Who the fuk are you to call this YOUR city. Your just the same as the rest of these old outdated fuddy duddy politician jackasses that need to retire get kicked to the curb or just die.

Stephen At Half Aspen
Stephen At Half Aspen

Hancock is nothing more than another blowhard politician with nothing of worth to say. Pay the little man no mind.

Josh Bradley
Josh Bradley

Agreed Meredith. Funny how alcohol is always overlooked because it's legal. Or caffeine. I know plenty of people who pretty much abused caffeine pills them when they were pretty young. Most people I talk to who smoke have not done harder drugs. Of those who have only a handful did them even on a semi-regular basis, often "once and done." Hancock is a typical politician who refuses to acknowledge the facts that are right in front of him for fear of career fallout and/or (I'm leaning towards "and" ;) ) is afraid the liquor industry will suffer. Or it could just be the inability to admit he is wrong. A lot of people suffer from that.

Jeremy Hull
Jeremy Hull

Beer capital is ok, but the safer substance is not? No doubt money is the reason.

Corey Donahue
Corey Donahue

I disagree with Human Rights violator Hancock on his comments and disagree with the language of A64 so much I left America and went to the Bolivian Embassy in Mexico City the seek asylum as my human rights have been violated because of the war on drugs and the Governments of the United States of America. October 25, 2012 Crazy For Justice International Contact Corey Donahue mmedcora@hotmail.com Please vote NO on A64 don´t let big business and big government write Colorado´s constitutional amendments. Last Thursdaz in Mexico City, Corey Donahue, founder of Crazy for Justice International entered the Embassy of Bolivia in order to seek asylum from the political persecution he faced at the hands of the governments of the United States of America. Corey has been a lifelong cannabis and human rights activist. He has faced arrest many times due to his political belief that the US government’s drug prohibition is a crime against humanity. When reached for comment Corey had this to say, "I have been persecuted many times by the governments of the United States, be it being arrested in the Governor´s office for no offence or being put in jail for possession of less than 1oz of cannabis even though I have a constitutional right to possess 2oz or having a restraining order take out against me not once but four times by members of the government of the State of Colorado and I have had enough I will no longer be persecuted for my political beliefs.¨ In an attached video statement Corey spells out more of his quest for asylum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgWDWARZnAQ&list=HL1351226253&feature=mh_lolz The Bolivian Embassy is working with Corey Donahue on his asylum claim. The government of Bolivia asked for as much detailed proof of political repression at the hands of the Governments of the United States America. If anyone has pictures, videos or verifiable stories of political persecution at the hands of the US governments, especially regarding drug related issues, please email them to Crazy for Justice International at mmedcora@hotmail.com. Upon receiving these reports the staff at Crazy for Justice will relay the evidence to the Government of Bolivia as well as other governments and peoples around the world. Also to confirm this story you can call Ricardo Olmos, he speaks English, Encargado De Asuntos Consulares Enbajada De Boliva Phone 5255363020 Ext. 13 Email embahada-consular@embol.org.mx

Michael B3
Michael B3

Food is a gateway drug to obesity. Criminalize that, sir, and we won't call you a hypocrite. Alcohol is the gateway to all kinds of criminal activity and ruined lives. Let's talk about how we can go about criminalizing everything that can be deemed a gateway to something worse so that you can eradicate the criticisms of being labeled 'ignorant'.

Meredith Thomas
Meredith Thomas

No, I don't agree with him. There are real problems to worry about and pot is not one of them. Alcohol is the REAL gateway drug.

jhaul21
jhaul21

MARIJUANA ILLEGAL: millions of tax dollars wasted on enforcement, wasting of law enforcement time to enforce this, tens of thousands of people getting tied up and in trouble with our over crowded legal system, the illegal drug market continues to make money, gain power, and have a presence in the community, citizens are less free and have less choices when it comes to choosing a vice, having the option of either alcohol or cigarettes both of which are more unhealthy to intake on a regular basis than marijuana, kids and anyone who are interested in getting some marijuana have to go to drug dealers places which have or are connected to other drugs, which is why it is "gateway drug"

MARIJUANA LEGAL: millions of tax dollars saved on ending enforcement and hundreds of millions of tax dollars gained, law enforcement can focus on other more important things, cartels and other criminal organizations suffer a big blow and lose their biggest money making operation here colorado, people now have a alternative to alcohol, and finally people start smoking weed and the world becomes a better place.

 

in response to people who say the children will be able to get it, that's not a big deal, they're gonna have to be exposed to it sooner or later and with it being legal it will be put behind the shelf along side alcohol and cigarettes making it just as difficult to get, however probably the reality will be that u'll be able to get more weed than u've ever dreamed of cuz every stoner is gonna be growing his six plants in his basement, there will be so much weed here in colorado the "brown cloud" will be because of weed smoke haha... this is a good thing :) also we will become the mecca for weed in america millions of people will flock here to smoke some dro tourism will be up stoners from everywhere across the country will move here economically denver will be a boom town soooo much money would come of this and we would stand as a leader for freedom and be a beacon of light for the rest of the country, just like we did when we made alcohol legal here 1 year before probation ended, lets do this colorado lets set the example lead the way!

also a a fun side not im a fiscal conservative who voted for mitt romney and i smoke weed! 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

Watch the Donkey go nuts when I post this...

 

A new report from the Marijuana Arrest Research Project just came out today. And the findings are startling.

 

In the 25 years from 1986 to 2010, police and sheriffs' departments in Colorado made 210,000 arrests for the crime of possessing small amounts of marijuana. That's enough to empty the cities of Fort Collins and Grand Junction combined.

It gets worse. Although young African Americans and Latinos use marijuana at lower rates than young whites, in the last 10 years, police in Colorado arrested Latinos at 1.5 times the rate of whites and arrested blacks at 3.1 times the rate of whites.

 

 

We know the Donkey response in advance:

 

"proven habitual liar and self-aggrandizing meddling dilettante lying scum sucking pot clown provacateurs..you=idiot...You = a fraud....You = hypocritical self-centered prohibitionist scum..blah blah blah"

 

Name calling makes you look childish, not me.

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

No matter how many times the Donkey insults everyone, they cannot justify why our current "decriminalized" scheme is better than A64.

 

Under the current "decriminalized" scheme possession is punishable by a $100 fine and mandatory court appearance. Cultivation of a single plant is punishable by 18 months in jail.

 

A64 removes these penalties for adults over 21.  Anyone 18-21 who needs marijuana can still get marijuana under A20.

 

Quoting Donkey "if you are stupid enough to get caught with a pathetic ounce, you deserve to be fined".  That says it all, donkey wants marijuana users to be punished.

 

Donkey also cannot tell us who is backing their "decriminalization" measure that they are proposing if A64 fails.  I doubt that they have anyone backing them.

 

Go ahead and call me names Donkey, I'll continue to flag the posts as abusive and everyone will continue to see you as childish because you substitute insults for logic.

 

orson
orson

In other news, livefyre still sucks and can't handle all these comments.  No matter how many times you click "show X more" you can never see all 700+ comments. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick "you completely ignored the fact that American Soldiers who went to war FOR US are now restricted in Colorado because we don't allow the PTSD use and every other state does.  I would welcome FEDERAL REGULATION that would remedy that on behalf of our soldiers.

How can you ignore THEIR PLEA for help and vote against THEM this November 6?"

 

A64 DENIES any legal access to 10s of thousands of U$ Soldiers who are under 21 

you un-American piece of crap !!

 

Why do you hate U$ Troops ?

.

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

A64 = one ounce six plants no doctor's visits.

 

Yes on 64

mattleising
mattleising topcommenter

 @kevin_hunt I think he's done trolling finally or maybe sleeping because he seems to live on this page. I wonder if he's with Hancock on marijuana being "dangerous"

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @orson I agree livefyre sucks. I wanted to respond to your post, but can't get past the first 50 comments.  

 

I will respond here: "that would basically remove federal penalties for marijuana and would leave marijuana legislation up to the states. "

 

That would be ideal, but it might not happen that way. The feds know the old saying "if you can't beat 'em join 'em".  The feds might permit the drug companies to flood the market with sativex, in exchange for the states removing their state protections for citizens to grow and use real marijuana.

 

From the fed's point of view, and the view of many prohibitionists, why do the states need to permit the production of a plant by patients and caregivers if "needy patients can get all of the benefits of marijuana in a FDA approved medicine"?

 

This is the same logic that Romney quoted in his famous dissing of the guy in the wheelchair.

 

Recreational users of alcohol can walk into a liquor store and choose from hundreds of different "strains" of booze.  There is no "doctor shopping" with beer, you just pick it out, show your ID,  pay for it, and take it home.  You can even make the stuff yourself.

 

 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @orson -- No software can handle the heat that Donkey brings!

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay You are cruel.  A64 helps TONS of vets, why would you deny ANY an opportunity to heal their pain?  I want to help as many people as I can with my vote and so I will vote in favor of A64 because it can help hundreds perhaps thousands of vets.

orson
orson

 @DonkeyHotay   Hmm...never quite understood why you have been so adamant about 18-21 year olds having access to marijuana but I think I get it now.  18-21 year old soldiers suffering from PTSD and other medical conditions not covered by A20 still wouldn't have legal access to marijuana, medicinal or otherwise.  Is there more to it then I am getting?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @kevin_hunt 

 

Only an idiot would give The Government TOTAL CONTROL of ALL marijuana in exchange for a pathetic ounce.

 

Little Minds of Little Courage beg for Little Freedom.

 

.

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @mattleising The Donkey never sleeps.  The Donkey lives in all of our nightmares.  The Donkey is all powerful and omnipresent.

 

"I wonder if he's with Hancock on marijuana being "dangerous""

 

The Donkey has posted bogus "studies" about marijuana causing suicide and testicular cancer, so it's obvious they do think it is "dangerous".

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @kevin_hunt  So you admit you've been committing fraud while using and abusing Amendment 20s MEDICAL marijuana program as pretense and sham so you can get high recreationally ... to the detriment of the legitimate patients who desperately need marijuana for their chronic debilitating diseases, eh?

 

 

 

 

 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @orson 

 

HipTip -- you don't establish rights for yourself by denying those same rights to others.

 

hth.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay  @kevin_hunt 

Once again you are confused jack, the government already has total control.  

 

What A64 does is take a little control AWAY from the government.  It's not a total reversal of prohibition it's true but sure is a whole lot more logical than the current system and it takes tax money and puts it where it should be, in the hands of taxpayers.. not criminal organizations.

 

Yes on A64!

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

@DonkeyHotay

One of the chief organizations among the 4,000 or so “Families Against Marijuana” type groups today is Lyndon LaRouche’s “War on Drugs” committee, supported by Nancy Reagan, TV evangelists Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, and other right-wing activists.

    In January, 1981, this author and five members of the California Marijuana Initiative (CMI) secretly, by pretending to be pro-LaRouche, attended the West Coast convention of this organization, whose guest speaker was Ed Davis, former Los Angeles Police Chief, who was at that time a freshman state senator from Chatsworth, California.

After we signed the petition, their leaders took us to the back of the room to show us some of the goals that would be achieved when they would come to full power over the next decade.

    On five or so long tables set up in the back of the Los Angeles Marriott LAX meeting room were hundreds of recordings of Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, and others, and dozens of pro-nuclear power publications.

    They told us that along with new marijuana laws, they expected to implement their most important goal: anyone in the future who played disco, rock ‘n’ roll, or jazz on the radio, on television, in schools, or in concert, or just sold rock ‘n’ roll records or any other music that wasn’t from their approved classical lists, would be jailed, including music teachers, disc jockeys, and record company executives. School teachers, if they allowed such music by students, would be fired. (LA Times; KNBC-TV.)

 

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

@DonkeyHotay

 When the federal government seizes cars, boats, money, real estate, and other personal property, proceeding are set into motion based on laws that originated with medieval superstition.

    English common law of the Middle Ages provided for forfeiture of any object causing a man’s death. Known as a “deodand,” the object, such as a weapon or run-away ox cart, was personified and declared tainted or evil, and forfeited to the king.

    Today’s in rem (against things rather than against persons) forfeiture proceedings are civil suits against the property itself. Relying on analogy to the deodand, a legal “personification fiction,” declares the property to be the defendant. It is held guilty and condemned, as though it were a personality—and the guilt or innocence of the owner is irrelevant.

    By applying this civil label to forfeiture proceedings, the government sidesteps almost all the protections offered by the Constitution to individuals. There is no Sixth Amendment guarantee of right to counsel. Innocent until proven guilty is reversed. Each violation of a constitutional right is then used as the basis for the destruction of another.

    The violation of the Fifth Amendment’s “innocent until proven guilty” due process standard is used to destroy the prohibition of double jeopardy. Even acquittal of the criminal charges the forfeiture is based upon does not prevent re-trying the same facts, because, even through the government couldn’t prove a crime was committed, at the second trial the defendant must provide proof of innocence.

    The Supreme Court holds that it is constitutional to forfeit property in rem from a person who is completely innocent and non-negligent in his use of the property. Lower courts accept prosecutors’ arguments that if it is permissible to forfeit property from completely innocent persons, then constitutional protections could not possibly apply to anyone who is guilty of even a minor drug offense.

    Unlike civil suits between individuals, the government is immune to counter-suit. The government can use its unlimited resources to repeatedly press a suit in the mere hope of convincing one juror the defendant did not provide a preponderance of evidence.

    Forfeitures imposed by the English Crown led our nation’s founders to prohibit bills of attainder (forfeiture consequent to conviction) in the first article of the American Constitution. The main body of the Constitution also forbids forfeiture of estate for treason. The first Congress passed the statue, still law today, stating that “No conviction or judgement shall work corruption of blood or any forfeiture of estate.” However, early Americans did incorporate in rem (proceeding against a thing) procedures under Admiralty and Maritime law, to seize enemy ships at sea and to enforce payment of customs duties.

    It was not until the outbreak of the Civil War that these Customs procedures were radically changed. The Confiscation Act of July 17, 1862, declared all property belonging to Confederate officers or those who aided the rebels to be forfeitable in rem. The U.S. Supreme Court held that if the Act was an exercise of the war powers of the government and was applied only to enemies, then it was Constitutionally allowable in order to ensure a speedy termination of the war.

    Today, the passions of the “War on Drugs” have caused Congress to once again use in rem proceedings to inflict punishment without the nuisance of the protections provided by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. “We have to save our Constitution,” says Vickie Linker, whose husband served two years in prison for a cannabis offense. “We have the truth.”

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay  @orson 

"HipTip -- you don't establish rights for yourself by denying those same rights to others."

 

That was exactly my point to Orson, I'm glad you picked up on it Donkey.  

 

How dare you and he not vote to help those not helped by the law now.  If there were an option to allow any vet to use I would vote for that.  Unfortunately, like with alcohol, its not legal for people under 21.  It would be great if there was some big button you could push that would keep things away from irresponsible people, like children, but there just isn't.  So we end up taking the bad with the good as we plod along trying to govern the ungovernable.  You still have not given even a single reason a person should vote against it.

 

Yes on 64 it allows 3 million people in Colorado alone access to cannabis in a common sense regulated fashion that has those 3 million people paying taxes to the city and state, unlike the completely unregulated black market system we have today for those recreational users.

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @orson  @IcePick "I apologize for the name calling and anything else I've said that may have offended you and other people in the discussoin. "

 

For me, that is concrete proof that Orson is not the Donkey.  The Donkey would never apologize.

 

I like Orson because he debates like a normal human being, unlike the Donkey.

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @orson  @IcePick "How is that different from taking a vallium?"

 

For one thing, with MMJ the doctor does not keep track of every single dose that the patient consumes.

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @orson  @IcePick Orson Says: "Rec users are using a psychoactive medicine to feel better and that's ok"

 

Orson also says: " And there's the "proof" of you admitting that you support abuse of the medical marijuana system.  "

 

I'm confused, what is your definition of "abuse of the medical system" if "Rec users are using a psychoactive medicine to feel better and that's OK"?

 

 

 

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @orson "And there's the "proof" of you admitting that you support abuse of the medical marijuana system."

 

No I don't, and that's why I support A64, because it removes the need for anyone to fake severe pain.

 

If you think that "all use is medical" you are kidding yourself.

orson
orson

 @IcePick  "I have severe pain, how dare you attack me.  And my pain doesn't change from year to year and doctors have never been able to help me."  -----   IcePick, you have attacked me many times so I have retaliated and defended myself.  I apologize for the name calling and anything else I've said that may have offended you and other people in the discussoin.  I sympathize with your medical condition and I am in the exact same situation as you.  My condition gets worse year to year and it's something I've dealt with for 20 long years.  I am fairly young and invisibly disabled so most people have no idea how much pain I experience daily and doctors for the longest time thought I was just a drug seeking kid which prolonged my diagnosis by many years unnecessarily.  Marijuana is critical to my being comfortable so I can deal with the pain and continue living my life.  This is why it is very important to me that marijuana is not re-branded like alcohol.  I do not see marijuana as a substitute for alcohol, it is a legitimate medicine and should be viewed as a medicine.  If you are a legitimate patient like you say then you should understand where I am coming from.  I use marijuana conservatively instead of the handful of prescription medicines I was previously taking daily and I do not want to get treated like a drunk driver just because I have unknown amounts marijuana in my blood stream.  I really think marijuana like alcohol is the wrong approach and is very harmful to the progress that has been made through medical marijuana.  Recreational drugs and medicines are regulated differently.  DUI for medicines are generally based on impairment tests as they should be, DUI for recreational drugs are generally based on per se limits.  I strongly feel that marijuana should be treated like a medicine and that efforts to expand access to marijuana should keep a medical mindset.  Sorry, but I cannot support A64.

orson
orson

 @IcePick "How many medicines are regulated more than alcohol, about 95%?"  I didn't ask that, I asked how many medicines are regulated LIKE ALCOHOL?  The answer is still ZERO.  I am for treating marijuana like a medicine, not like alcohol which has no medical value when consumed.  I think ultimately marijuana should be de-scheduled and treated like other herbal medicines because it is a herbal medicine but if given the choice I would be for regulating like a schedule 2 or 3 substance before I would ever consider treating it like a recreational drug. 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  A64 DENIES any LEGAL ACCESS to 10s of THOUSANDS of U$ Soldiers who are < 21, you America-hating piece of shit !

 

.

orson
orson

 @IcePick  I don't know you, don't presume to, and don't ever want to.  For the last fucking time I am not donkeyhotay.   You don't know me and can't even comprehend that my views are different than donkeyhotay's.  This discussion is not about alcohol and alcohol prohibition no matter how much you want to change the subject.  It's about marijuana and whether or not A64 should be supported.  A64 authors are using american soldiers as leverage for the like alcohol initiative.  If their goal was to expand access to medical marijuana then the initiative would have easily passes with over 75% of the public in support of medical marijuana.  Instead it is about re-branding marijuana in attempts to appeal to alcohol users to boost customers.  A64 is not about medicine.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson You don't know me so stop trying to pretend you do.  You are now proposing we throw out alcohol regulations?  You want us to go back to 1931 now?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson How many medicines are regulated more than alcohol, about 95%?  Go look it up Donkey.

 

You want it both ways you want it for your use but careless about others use.  You want it made by pharma but you are mad that it is not an 'herbal remedy'.

 

Perhaps you could form an actual opinion and get back to us?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson you completely ignored the fact that American Soldiers who went to war FOR US are now restricted in Colorado because we don't allow the PTSD use and every other state does.  I would welcome FEDERAL REGULATION that would remedy that on behalf of our soldiers.

 

How can you ignore THEIR PLEA for help and vote against THEM this November 6?

 

 

orson
orson

 @IcePick   Marijuana will be regulated like a recreational drug, or a medicine, not both.  Legislators will legislate and when they do they will not differentiate between medical and recreational marijuana users if A64 passes.

orson
orson

 @IcePick  How many medicines are regulated LIKE ALCOHOL?  ZERO

orson
orson

 @IcePick  How many herbal medicines are abused by teenagers besides marijuana?  Teenagers abuse marijuana because adults treat it like a cool party drug and A64 would make it legal to market it like one, like alcohol.  LIKE ALCOHOL is the wrong approach. 

orson
orson

 @IcePick I've explained several times how alcohol regulation does not keep alcohol from children, and how A64 would not keep marijuana from children, and why the approach to liberating marijuana should be through herbal medicines.  You disregard those statements because you don't care. 

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson " I am against marketing and regulated marijuana like a recreational drug."

 

This one is my favorite.  You appear to be a communist.  I bet that's it, isn't it... you are a communist... that's why you don't want our vets to have access to medicine.  I'm not sure how you gain by my paying a sleazy doctor though...

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson "All you seem to care about is getting stoned without seeing a doctor".

 

I have severe pain, how dare you attack me.  And my pain doesn't change from year to year and doctors have never been able to help me.  And what about people with PTSD, are you better than those vets too?  you don't care about veterans with PTSD?

 

What kind of monster are you?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson "you don't care about keeping marijuana out of the hands of children"  Where'd ya get that notion?  You didn't see what I said?

 

VOTE YES ON A64 IT KEEPS WEED OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson then you are a prohibitionist.  you think your reason to use (severe pain excuse - common) is somehow more valid than a person who is just honest and says they want to use.  Are you a teetotaler too?  Like I said you should move to some backwards state where they think prohibition is a fine way to continue operating.  For the rest of us (the thinking people) we'll choose to stop arresting dark skinned people in the name of the evil devil weed.  You just go right on puffing away in your ivory tower, you condescending troll.

 

orson
orson

 @IcePick  I've given you several reasons to vote against A64 but you don't care about medical marijuana patients and you don't care about keeping marijuana out of the hands of children.  All you seem to care about is getting stoned without seeing a doctor.  You are no better than the junkies abusing medicinal narcotics.  I'm sure they'd love an initiative to legalize oxy like alcohol.  A64 is a drug abuser's dream apparently.

orson
orson

 @IcePick   Again, I'm satisfied with A20, it's you that isn't IcePick....I don't care about recreational marijuana just like you don't care about medical marijuana.  I am against marketing and regulated marijuana like a recreational drug.   As a medicinal user of marijuana I am against being lumped into the same group as recreational drug users.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  Why would the price drop?

 

As YOU have already stated, the "black market" will remain unchanged if A64 passes.

 

You = Economics 101 FAIL!

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay stop trying to change the subject, give me a reason to vote against a 64

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick " No I didn't... I grow and have grown marijuana many many times."

 

So why do you need overpriced, heavily taxed retail marijuana?

 

Failed at growing too?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson like I said... develop an initiative.  I would sign it.  this is not, however, a reason to vote against A64.

orson
orson

 @IcePick If you think that just because someone uses marijuana then they are "stoned" or "impaired" then you are wrong and it seems you don't know anything about MEDICAL MARIJUANA.  There are many medicines that are potentially impairing but when used responsibly as a medicine they are not impairing.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson a64 is AWESOME and it is going to legalize marijuana for all 

 

Yes on A64 FREE THE WEED MAN

orson
orson

 @IcePick I'm happy with A20.  Your A64 initiative is shit and that's your problem.

orson
orson

 @IcePick You bailing on the discussion?  Figures you couldn't handle it.

orson
orson

 @IcePick I don't use anywhere near enough marijuana to get "stoned" jerk.  I am no more impaired than a patient on SSRIs.  You don't understand because you don't use marijuana medicinally.  

IcePick
IcePick

@orson

 If you are concerned about this I have a GREAT idea... WRITE AN INITIATIVE AND GET SUPPORT.  

 

And VOTE YES ON 64!

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson I don't need a doctor to tell me to drink, or smoke a cigarette or smoke a bowl.  I would prefer the option to choose one and so I live in Colorado and put up with the rules.

 

Vote YES on 64, it allows people to buy and smoke marijuana!

orson
orson

 @IcePick  Expand access and rights to medical marijuana, a psychoactive herbal medicine, and you won't have to lie to a doctor.  You use marijuana to feel better and relax, right?  How is that different from taking a vallium?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson ok, deep end... back up the crazy truck....

 

there is nothing in A64 about a right to drive or not.  You do not have a right to drive, it is a privilege.  If you drive stoned you are a piece of shit.  Now, you were saying?

orson
orson

 @IcePick I would gladly pay a $100 fucking dollars annually so I don't lose my right to drive.  To me marijuana is a medicine just like lunesta, prozac, or celebrex.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson " Given the choice, I don't understand why anyone would want the government to regulate marijuana like alcohol instead of a medicine."

 

This is a reason?  So you prefer that recreational users lie to get meds from a doctor.  That's lame.  Grow up and take your medicine like a man.  Smoke a bowl of weed.  Don't keep your hobby a closeted secret, be proud that you are not a drunk.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson " Expanding access and rights to medical marijuana is the best path forward to get what we both want."

 

That is not what I want.  I want prohibition to end and taxes to be paid to the state.  just like alcohol.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson I just gave you one very valid reason... a patient will save a hundred dollars a year.  The best you can come up with is:  "A64 is a battering ram for steve kings marijuana dui bill.  "

 

Really dude?

orson
orson

 @IcePick How does A64 hurt me?  "if it passes all medical marijuana patients will get treated and regulated like drug abusers"  A64 is a battering ram for steve kings marijuana dui bill.  It will have no problem passing in the spring with science lacking per se limits if A64 passes in november.  I don't care if you want to smoke pot and have a good time but I don't want to see it done at my expense as a patient.  Rec users are using a psychoactive medicine to feel better and that's ok and it shouldn't be treated like alcohol.  Given the choice, I don't understand why anyone would want the government to regulate marijuana like alcohol instead of a medicine.  Ideally marijuana should be seen as the herbal medicine it is and let every legal adult purchase it wherever the hell they want, whenever they want like st johns wart or something.  It is a medicine and should be treated like a medicine.  Expanding access and rights to medical marijuana is the best path forward to get what we both want.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson Then you should move to California or some other backwards state because here in Colorado we're about to walmartize this biatch.  The price will continue to drop for high grade meds and as a patient you will save more than a hundred dollars a year because you will no longer need a red card or doctors visit.  and that hurts you how?

 

 

orson
orson

 @IcePick I've said several times.  A64 would destroy medical marijuana in colorado.  The biggest problem I personally have with it is that it re-brands marijuana as a recreational drug and if it passes all medical marijuana patients will get treated and regulated like drug abusers.  I am for keeping marijuana medical and for expanding rights and access to medical marijuana.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson so rather than continuing to change the subject, riddle me this...

 

can you provide one reason somebody should NOT vote on A64?  I don't think I've heard a legitimate argument for the against side yet.

orson
orson

 @IcePick 17 people listening....and you think 2 of the 3 people posting are the same person.  Ugh.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson you can claim whatever you want.  nobody here thinks I am jackass.  some might think I am a jackass, but that is different.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  So tell us, Einstein, what are the IP addresses of the packets hitting the page right now.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay lol, so you think we should vote against A64 because idiots should not vote?  is that your best?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick 1) Idiots like you shouldn't vote at all, ever.

 

hth.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson not like this.  we are chatting on a forum.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson I can't image 'you' do get the IP addresses of westword commenters.  but if you watch the network traffic... see who is hitting this page right now....

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  Or you're just too stupid to comprehend how the posting software works. 

orson
orson

 @IcePick Come on IcePick....I could claim you are donkeyhotay.....it's the internet....many people can use it at the same time.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @orson  He didn't get any IP address, it was another pathetic lie from a pathetic liar.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson once again donkey flags your ad before the page even refreshes.... it's almost like you have two accounts open on computers right next to one another...

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  So you lied when you claimed you grew marijuana, eh?

orson
orson

 @IcePick  How did you get access to IP addresses of westword commenters?

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson I do not.  But that may change if A64 passes.

orson
orson

 @IcePick   I am a medical marijuana patient with no financial stake in marijuana against A64.  Your turn IcePick....what's your agenda?  Do you work in a marijuana related industry?

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick 

 

The cluetrain has left the station ... and you forgot your ticket again.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  

 

There are "10,000" reasons to not put a meaningless, dysfunctional, bogus, discriminatory piece of crap into the Colorado Constitution ...

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay hey girlfriend, what did you mean when you wrote this:

yes, "smart businessmen" (I think the adjective, white, was overlooked to be in front of businessmen)

orson
orson

 @IcePick I don't know what "movie" you're talking about and I don't care.  I've been patient with you but your assumptions that anyone that opposes A64 must be donkeyhotay is ridiculous.  Even robertchase knows that.  Medical marijuana may be a joke to you IcePick but it is a serious topic for me.  Get this straight, I don't lie and I am not donkeyhotay.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay  @orson So you ignored my challenge to give a reason to not vote for a64 and you attack a few messengers.  I'm disappointed in you girl.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @orson  

 

Robert supports patients and caregivers as much as Brian Vicente and MMIG support them.

 

With friends like those, who needs the DEA?

orson
orson

 @IcePick   Move along ButtPick, this one doesn't concern you.

orson
orson

 @DonkeyHotay  It pisses me off that RobertChase claims to represents patients and caregivers then publicly supports an amendment that is bad for patients and caregivers.  I guess he does fit in well with the A64 campaign after all.  You win.  I give up on RobertChase.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay show your work... why should anyone vote against a64.  give me a valid argument.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay  @orson oh my lord.... no posts for one hour and orson posts, orson posts, donkey posts... within 1 minute.

 

Come on girl, who you tryin to fool?

 

 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @orson  

 

Robert Chase is a proven liar, and a vapid dilettante in his vainglorious pursuit of self-aggrandizement in an industry where he has ZERO experience.

IcePick
IcePick

 @orson look at that, donkey's stamp is on this comment before it even appeared in print.  Hi Donkey, er ?orson?

 

Demonstrate one reason a thinking person should not vote for A64 and please... show your work.

orson
orson

 @kevin_hunt  "'Medical' was a great stepping stone, but it's time to move on to recreational legalization.  This showdown with the feds isn't going to last."  --- And there's the "proof" of you admitting that you support abuse of the medical marijuana system.  You don't believe in medical marijuana and you personally view it as a stepping stone for recreational marijuana, hence the trojan horse analogy I made weeks ago.  A64 is supported by recreational users that agree with marijuana prohibitionists who think medical marijuana is a sham.  A64 turns A20 into a trojan horse.  You follow?

orson
orson

 @IcePick   WHAT?????  WHAT'S THAT?  "we all know that when the new centers open in 2014 MMC's will fail as all patients and recreational users shop at the new stores."  ---  BUT BUT BUT RobertChase and A64 pimps said that A64 would have no effect on medical marijuana in Colorado!!!!  Freaking A64 supporters will say anything to convince somebody to vote for this horrible amendment.  A64 is bad for medical marijuana patients.  A64 would eliminate MEDICAL marijuana in colorado.  Got that roberchase, defender of patients and caregivers (not)? 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @DonkeyHotay  @IcePick ""medical" marijuana in Colorado is a sham, populated by recreational stoners hiding behind the pretense of A20 just so they can get high."

 

As if "One Brown Mouse" was going to only sell to those "patients" that were dying of cancer or MS.  That's funny! How many of those legitimately sick and dying folks live in Nederland? 

 

The jig is up.  Donkey admits that medical marijuana is a sham.  There is no choice now but to legalize it for recreational purposes, since there is no such thing as a "decriminalized" home grow.

 

"Medical" was a great stepping stone, but it's time to move on to recreational legalization.  This showdown with the feds isn't going to last.

 

"Rescheduling would destroy the amateur medical marijuana industry" according to the Donkey at Huffpost.  The Donkey is right, and the feds know it, too.  Get ready for schedule III overpriced legal pharmaceutical  Sativex, and no home grows in all 50 states, suckers!

 

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @DonkeyHotay  Despite a strong injection of reason and fact into the cannabis debate by the media in the late 1960s and 1970s, the national media has largely failed to distinguish marijuana prohibition from the broader “drug war” hysteria, which “sold more copy” in the 1980s.    Hemp activists have been ignored, their events censored and excluded from calendar listings—even paid advertisements about events or legal, non-smoking hemp products are refused by news sources. What ever happened to fact checking?    Instead of serving as the probing watchdogs of government and keepers of the public trust, corporate news groups regard themselves as the profit-making tool for forging “consensus” on national policy.     “Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself.”—President Jimmy Carter
August 2, 1977     According to groups like Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) and researchers like Ben Bakdikian and Michael Parenti, these corporations define and protect the “national interest”—often meaning their own vested financial interests and political agendas. It must be remembered that many of the largest publishers have direct holdings in timberland for paper development, and the pharmaceutical drug, petrochemical companies, etc. are among the media’s major advertisers.    In an article published in the L.A. Times Magazine May 7, 1989, entitled “Nothing Works,” (and since mimicked in hundreds of magazines, including Time and Newsweek), Stanley Meiseler laments the problem facing schools in drug education programs and inadvertently reveals the news media’s own assumptions and bias:    “Critics believe that some education programs have been crippled by exaggerating the dangers of drugs. Principles and teachers, watched closely by city officials, feel pressured not to teach pupils that marijuana, although harmful,* is less addicting than cigarettes.… Failure to acknowledge such information means school programs can lose credibility. But more honest programs could be even more harmful.” (Emphasis added.)    The harm he predicts is an expected increase in consumption when people learn the health benefits and lack of physical or psychological risks involved with cannabis consumption. Many persons decide that they prefer pot (which apparently does not need to advertise) to alcohol and tobacco, for which so many advertising dollars are spent.    * No specific studies showing the alleged harmful effects were cited in the article. In fact, cannabis was barely mentioned except for this reference and a note that detoxification businesses report some success in “breaking a mild dependence on marijuana and alcohol.”

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  So after 1000s of idiotic posts, you finally confess that "medical" marijuana in Colorado is a sham, populated by recreational stoners hiding behind the pretense of A20 just so they can get high.

 

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay Yes jackass, we all know that when the new centers open in 2014 MMC's will fail as all patients and recreational users shop at the new stores.  

 

You're such an idiot you don't even see the obvious argument

 

Yes on A64, Shill doctors will lose money!!!

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @kevin_hunt  "Less "patients" = less $$ for "caregivers" too, which is perfect for Donkey the illegal grower."

 

 

So now you admit that A64 will INCREASE the "black market", eh?

 

You really ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you boy?

 

.

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @IcePick  Less "patients" = less $$ for "caregivers" too, which is perfect for Donkey the illegal grower.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick Your circle-jerk buddy Kevin claims that A64 will eliminate the need for doctor visits and red cards for all those faker patients who've been gaming the system like he has.

 

Less "patients" = less $$ for medical dispensaries.

 

.

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay Who said that, other than you?  I think MMC's are perfectly legal. I read HB10-1284, the law which made them legal.  

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  So now you claim that MMJ Dispensaries are "Criminal Organizations"?

 

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @kevin_hunt Dude, thank you for fighting the good fight here, there and everywhere.  Your dedication is truly appreciated.

 

FUK the haterz

 

 

kevin_hunt
kevin_hunt

 @IcePick  Thanks for keeping the heat on Donkey.  I find arguing with a brick wall like the Donkey exhausting after a while.  It is full of bluster and insults but no substance.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick "If somebody did something illegal, like I said you had better call the police.  I don't care who you think did what to whom."

 

 

Funny, that's exactly what Brian Vicente says, that law enforcement should focus on the real "criminals" -- all the marijuana users and growers who would dare exceed the pathetically tiny limits set by A64 ...

 

 

... all "10,000" of them!

 

.

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay If somebody did something illegal, like I said you had better call the police.  I don't care who you think did what to whom.

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick So you acknowledge that the A64 pimps are lying liars for fabricating the 10,000 arrests claim?

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay So now you ar back on the 10,000 arrests are real?  You are a flip flopper, thank you for playing.

 

I erased my comment in favor of the newer one I wrote but this system sucks and the new post is at the end of the comments, not where it should be.  Man you are stupid.

 

Yes on A64!

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick 

 

I see you deleted your original pathetic comment, like the flip-flopping coward that you are.

 

So you finally admit that the 10,000 marijuana arrest figure is an abject lie and total fabrication from the Prevaricating Pimps promoting bogus A64, eh?

 

Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

 

IcePick
IcePick

 @DonkeyHotay Jack, it's not right that you come on here and disrespect people as you do.  I'm not stupid and if I were I might be offended by your childish remark.

 

It's also not fair for you to come here and claim these crimes exist when you've told us all along that the 10,000 arrests never occurred to begin with.  You know what they called John Kerry when he distorted the truth like you and then reversed himself?  

 

They called him a flop flopper.  You, Jack, are a flip flopper who distorts the truth in a vain attempt to make a point which nobody (excepting your one legged alter ego) seems to care about.

 

Why you would waste time here, on an alt weekly indy paper in Denver is beyond me.  You cannot convince any of us that you have even the smallest bit of truth in your position.  You are obviously a prohibitionist and we are all tired of your lies.  Go back to your bridge, troll.

 

 

 

DonkeyHotay
DonkeyHotay topcommenter

 @IcePick  

 

A64 continues criminal prohibition for ALL the 10,000 people that the lying proponents claim are arrested annually in Colorado for marijuana crimes -- crimes which fall OUTSIDE the pathetically puny limits and restrictions of A64 !!

 

Stay stupid, it's what you do best.

 

.

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