Arguments and Grievances second-anniversary edition at Vine Street Pub


While Bobby Crane defended the capitol of the world with lists of its cultural contributions (Woody Allen, The Ramones) against a backdrop of what L.A. has given us (Big Mama's House 2, Incubus), Troy Walker pointed out that New York is loud and insane, and L.A. is the place to be if you to relax and enjoy being famous.

Troy Walker

Troy Walker: The island of Manhattan was purchased by the Dutch for the equivalent of 24 dollars, so just like everything else in New York City, it was overpriced. . . . New York has an entire river that smells like garbage, and they sell boat tours of it. That's like a walking tour of Chernobyl. . . . Scientists predict that Hurricane Sandy has killed all of New York's weaker rats, leaving only the biggest, strongest rats to breed. Although, thanks to Mayor Bloomberg, none of the rats can be more than 32 ounces.

Bobby Crane: What's L.A.'s professional football team? Oh. yeah, they don't have one. What kind of self-respecting metropolis doesn't have a team in the NFL? Los Angeles? More like, Los An-jealous of how cool New York is. Los Angeles: they put the L.A. in lame.

Winner: Bobby Crane


While this was probably the most arbitrary topic of the evening, it aroused the most spirited debate. With Elliott Woolsey making a case for soaking in a warm tub, Chris Charpentier maintained that baths are just a process of marinating in your own filth, insisting that showers are ultimately sexier and more civilized.

Chris Charpentier: You ever try and masturbate in the shower? It's fun, it's easy, it's why we shower. You ever try and masturbate in the bathtub, dudes? It's loud, it's messy, it's nowhere near clean. I don't want to be gross, but it just sits on top! Whereas sex in a shower is great, you wash your arms with their arms, you wash torso with torso. You ever take a bath with someone? You're both in very unflattering positions the whole time, and there's a 100 percent chance that someone's toe is going up someone's butt-hole. You ready for that step in the relationship? You should have just taken a shower.

Elliott Woolsey: Sex in the shower is terrible. With the water cascading down her body, you ever try going down on your girlfriend in the shower? It's like being water-boarded, don't do it. . . . Terrible things happen in showers. I know it's uncomfortable, but you guys, how are we going to talk about showers without bringing up the holocaust? They weren't sent to the baths. Baths were for Romans, who were having a great fucking time until showers came along and killed six million people. I don't know why Chris [Charpentier] hates Jews, but a vote for showers is a vote for Hitler.

Winner: Elliot Woolsey


You couldn't have asked for a better casting for this debate than the sweet, beloved Mara Wiles (of Ladyface) taking the side of nurture, while dark-hearted, prince of Colfax Greg Baumhauer defended the cold hand of nature as superior to maternal guidance. Nothing was off limits with Baumhauer, not even Wiles's serious diagnosis of lupus and her spot on the wait-list for a new kidney.

Mara Wiles

Mara Wiles: I thought I might be late for this debate: I was busy breast-feeding some orphans in the bathroom. They're filling out college applications now. . . . Movies with nice, nurturing figures like Mrs. Doubtfire, the kids end up with two parents that just love them too goddamn much. While movies with nature in them, like Into The Wild, the guy dies in a fucking bus, alone. And he had to deal with Kristin Stewart.

Greg Baumhauer: First of all, let me just say this: Naughty By Nurture would be the worst rap-group in history. "You down wit OPP? Well let's get therapy and talk about it." Now, Mara, I understand why you're against nature, I mean it's trying to fucking kill you. Let's see if we can nurture you up a kidney. . . . I knew I took a chance there. "Hey, why don't I make fun of the dying girl, everyone will love it!" Not so much. How do I dig out of this hole?

Winner: Mara Wiles

Arguments and Grievances runs every third Sunday night at 10 p.m. at Vine Street Pub, located at 1700 Vine Street.

Location Info

Vine Street Pub & (Brewery)

1700 Vine St., Denver, CO

Category: Music

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